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LyricWiki talk archive for Community Portal
<< Jan – Jun 2011 Jul – Dec 2011 2012 >>



Spam filter

I've tried to create a page Eddie Constantine:Wenn Liebe auf der Welt regiert. Lyrics only: no external links, but it was blocked by the spam filter. What shall I do now? --eugrus 10:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Besides that due to our page naming conventions the page should be titled "Eddie Constantine:Wenn Liebe Auf Der Welt Regiert", exactly the same happened for me yesterday. It worked out for me on the second try, so I'd recommend to simply try adding the song again. - Chris 13:14, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
If trying to add the song again doesn't work, following the directions on the spam filter page -- which involve posting on a talk page elsewhere on Wikia -- will work, although you may have to wait a day or two. (I believe a Wikia administrator has to manually add an exception to the filter.) I've occasionally had this problem for pages with the word "best" in the title, which you may realize is not an uncommon word to find in album titles. Trainman 17:29, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
From experience I know that usually the problem isn't the content but some URL anywhere on the page (e. g. in advertisements) that is accidentially matching a regular expression in the blacklists. Given that AFAIK Wikia uses so-called ad-rotators that display different ads for every pageview it is mere chance whether the edit is accepted or blocked. - Chris 19:00, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
That is pretty ridiculous! Such capitalization of titles is a part of English orthography. Titles in languages other than English should not be forced to use the orthography of English. --eugrus 19:40, October 7, 2011 (UTC)
I think you're referring to the page naming conventions? Well, actually, they are not even English, because in English, titles would not have the words "The", "Of", "From", etc. written inicaps.
I guess you are not a programmer, so I can understand that this looks very "ridiculous" to you. But as a matter of fact, it is the only way to make sure that absolutely everyone in the world knows how the titles are written. We cannot suppose every developer to know that "Liebe" and "Welt" are nouns and therefore are capitalized. Furthermore it avoids duplicate content and discussions about how titles are written, and not only computers can quick-check whether we have certain content or not. Smile - Chris 16:19, October 9, 2011 (UTC)


Song Of The Day

I nominated a song ages ago, as always with nicely written reasons for my nomination. It hasn't turned up yet. I guess with the new interface it's just too easy now to nominate a song. The problem is, that a lot of nominations contain poor reasoning as for why the song is nominated. Things like "I don't know why this song should not be SOTD". It's just a pity, because someone like me won't write another nomination under these circumstances. You know, at Wikipedia they have understood that it is important that what appears on the home page is of good quality. Just some food for thought.--91.49 22:21, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I do see your nomination in the queue, so don't worry, it'll show up eventually. You're right that we do have a fairly big queue -- we're a couple of months behind on songs that don't have a preferred date.
Recognizing that they do end up on the front page, we do reject songs with nomination reasons that are too short, or too incoherent, and we do edit nomination reasons for spelling/grammar/punctuation. However, since we want to be inclusive and allow a wide variety of songs, artists, and ideas, we don't really have a problem with nominations of the "I nominated this song because it's awesome" variety. Trainman 22:43, August 14, 2011 (UTC)
It's my particular concern to affirm that every nomination will be at least looked at. Furthermore I want to explain why there's still some of these ultra-short nominations that don't even get above the 50 char limit: in the time before the new interface was written, there was a chronical lack of nominations. Therefore some nominations made before the 50-char lower limit was introduced and that were at least suitable have been confirmed as such. Now, I don't want to reject nominations that were already marked suitable, because in my understanding of marking them suitable that is like a promise, and it'd be unfair to say "yes" and then reject it later just because others are better.
Now to why those still appear: Although we're really trying to, we're not absolutely pulling submissions in the order they were committed. The reason is that we try to mix those short-reasoned nominations with the detailed ones, to hold a certain quality level in average. This is why there are still many of those short ones. This will decrease by time. Since April, there have been over 700 nominations, of which at least 50% were good and suitable. I'm really sorry that this makes good nominations wait so long, but I promise that every nomination that's matching our criteria (not already SOTD, media ids and good reason) will finally be accepted and pulled to be SOTD. Please don't refrain from submitting new songs, it will get better by the time.
I wish there was a way to speed up, but as we're currently at an average of two or three new nominations per day we'd have to reject 50-66% of the incoming nominations, which is not what I want to do. I hope you understand. Greetings, Chris 01:04, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, meanwhile it's still that much songs, so I will remove the banner for now and see what that does to the rating. If that doesn't help, it's maybe time to raise the limit to 120 characters to find out who's really trying to make a good submission. Usual reasons should have no problem to beat that limit, especially if the nominations contain wiki markup like a link to an album or the genre. Write "a cool [[:Category:Gerne/Rock|rock]] song" instead of "a cool rock song" and you've got 25 characters more, and raised the quality of the nomination. Every suitable link is a good link. - Chris 22:21, October 2, 2011 (UTC)


Gracenote takedown on songs without lyrics

I am sorry if this was already asked. I tried looking and could not find anything on the subject.

On a few of the songs, they are nothing more than the "Instrumental" tag. However, the Gracenote lyric takedown was applied to these pages. If a song does not have lyrics, should it be subject to the Gracenote lyric takedown? M.A.X. 17:35, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hi M.A.X.,
Gracenote takedowns are illogical from time to time, it's just like that (if I made a top 10 list of the most nonsensical takedown titles you'd probably be laughing till you cry. Wink). Yet there's nothing we can do about it, takedowns have to be applied and revoked as Gracenote specifies. But anyway, how do these pages look like? Does "Instrumental tag" mean they have the {{Instrumental}} template above the takedown note, could you link to an example? If the Instrumental template is visible, a takedown is maybe annoying but not really a loss, is it? - Chris 05:18, August 28, 2011 (UTC)
Chris,
The pages I noticed it the most on were the ones for Tool. Here is one page. The Instrumental template is not visible, only the Gracenote takedown template. If the page actually said "Instrumental", then had the Gracenote takedown template language, I would not really care, but as you can see, that is not the case. --M.A.X. 16:57, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
Ah, okay, thanks for the example! Grin Well, I'll have to ask Sean whether edits like this one are intended. If not, I could try to explain though: the usual handling is that the lyrics are cropped to 10% of the original length. For very short lyrics, the remaining rest would be ridicolously short (like one word or just a few letters), so the lyrics are removed completely. My guess is that "{{Instrumental}}" is simply treated as if this was a very short lyrics content and is therefore fully removed. So if this really is an unhandled special case, then that behaviour will be changed in future updates and the {{Instrumental}} template will be restored for old takedowns. Thanks for bringing this to my/our attention. I'll post the answer here. - Chris 18:12, September 12, 2011 (UTC)
I still got no answer but I did not forget about this. - Chris 16:30, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
Hiya,
I don't think we've ever discussed this explicitly with Gracenote, but {{Instrumental}} seems like meta-data and I don't think any song rights-owner could claim to have a copyright on the information of whether or not their song was instrumental? I'm not a lawyer, but for lack of better information, that's my best guess... that it should be okay to leave the {{Instrumental}} in there?
(Chris is right that it just happening now because the length of the template is so short that it's being treated as short lyrics).
-Sean Colombo 00:12, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


Unofficial YouTube videos

Hello,

Though I'm no big part of the Lyric Wiki community at all, I do a lot of edits to the pages of bands I like, for instance I just recently brought Arcade Fire up to gold status, and I'm now working on Bon Iver. My question is this:

I've found a lot of unofficial YouTube videos embedded into lyric pages. Sure enough I like the idea of having a music sample of the lyrics you're reading, but in many cases these are bootleg recordings of live concerts, often with poor quality, or in general illegally uploaded videos from for example copyrighted material from MySpace Unplugged or similar. I am all for having official videos and officially released unplugged sessions or so on a page, but I've been removing videos with bad quality and that I know for a fact isn't uploaded by the copyright holders.

What's the policy on this?

Cheers, -=KAG=-My Pride 17:38, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there's an official policy beyond the rule of thumb you seem to be using, that official videos are better than unofficial, and so on. I'd say it's fine to remove low-quality videos, especially live recordings with bad sound. As for copyright, that's really between YouTube and the copyright holders; the record companies seem to be pretty good about quickly having videos taken down if they are legitimate copyright violations, so we can probably assume that anything that's been up on YouTube for a while is okay.
Also note that you can add |audio as a parameter to the YouTube embedding template, and it will embed the video as an audio player only -- that's probably the best thing to do if a song's been uploaded to YouTube in the form of a homemade slideshow or something along those lines. (See the template page for more details.) Trainman 18:51, October 2, 2011 (UTC)


The xx

Hello again

I'm trying to do some fixing on the lyrics for The xx, but there's a pretty big typo where the name here on lyric wiki is The Xx, with one capital X. Which is wrong. Wondering if someone could help me sort this out. Some redirect pages will need to be deleted, and I fear there'll be many double redirects if I just move the page on my own. Does anyone have a bot that can handle this rather tedious task for me?

-=KAG=-My Pride 23:08, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Please look at our page naming policy before you do any further moving. Thanks! — 6×9 (Talk) 06:03, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
How about that. All right, never mind me (: -=KAG=-My Pride 09:04, October 3, 2011 (UTC)


ASIN for songs?

I wonder whether ASIN for the songs themself make sense actually. I would guess only singles would have an ASIN - or is the ASIN for the mp3 downloads for the songs the one to look for and put it into the page? I'm a bit puzzled about what to do in those cases and what to put...

Thanks in advance for any insight in how you do that! Rhonda D'Vine 18:54, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I've always filled in the MP3-ASIN, because from there you can get everywhere else really easily. - Chris 15:42, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, makes sense of course. Will go through my certed songs and add them for completion. :) Rhonda D'Vine 09:32, October 18, 2011 (UTC)


Message Wall (wanna try it early?)

The new message wall system is out on test wikis (it's a way to try to make talk pages easier to use). I'm digging it so far... if you guys check it out & we decide to give it a shot early, I can ask for them to turn it on for LyricWiki. See: Tough Pigs' wall on Muppet.
-Sean Colombo 18:59, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I like the general idea, but as always I don't like the way how it's done. A lot of a lot of a lot too much space consuming design. Nope, I don't like that. - Chris 16:25, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
I don't like it either. Additional: I like on the Talk-Pages that you can show through the indentation to which message you are replying. On the "Message Wall" the replys are all on the same level. On discussions it's going to get really fast confusing, because all answers are mixed up and you cannot see to which reply a new one is referenced. — Salandas (Talk) 00:04, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


Song without Information blocking Gold status of Son Goku

I am working to get Son Goku into gold status, and am almost complete with the task, there is only one song missing from their album Crashkurs. Though, there is this Other Song that I stumbled upon while looking for videos, An jedem Morgen.

I wasn't aware of the song before I found it in and am now wondering: It's a live recording, I can transcribe the lyrics, and I can "guess" the credits because of from the way the other songs from the album are credited ... But that's too much guesswork for me to feel comfortable to put that song into Gold state, and thus the whole artist page won't be allowed to go Gold.

What do you suggest to do? Given that the song hasn't been on any recording, and that the only reference is the video (I just found it on Thomas D's homepage too), I feel uncertain about ranking of the song (and thus of the whole artist).

Any opinion and welcome!! Rhonda D'Vine 09:40, October 18, 2011 (UTC)


Free Music of the Week

Free Music of the Week has been done and over with. No one will ever start up that one again. It needs to be either replaced or removed. I think that Artist of the Month would be a better idea. - hard4me 00:09, November 26, 2011 (UTC)


Featured Poll

I like the idea of a Featured Poll. However, the American Music Awards were a week or two ago and we already know that Taylor Swift won the Artist of the Year award. It needs to be updated. - hard4me 00:09, November 26, 2011 (UTC)


New main page look?

Howdy. The content team has offered to help with our main page since it's been a while since we've given it a refresh. (Also we have some sections on the Main Page right now that we don't really update).

Anywho: I've bounced it back & forth with them a bit and here's what they've come up with so far: http://sixbitsnonethewiser.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Six_Bits_None_the_Wiser_Wiki

Notes:

  • When it's done the links will go to LyricWiki pages, not to Billboard/iTunes pages.
  • They think it'd be cool if we ported our menus to use the new Wikia nav (those blue menus)... I don't remember if that's going to be mandatory eventually or not.

Thoughts?
-Sean Colombo 18:00, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not really pro an update (I think I'm one of the few admins who really visits the mainpage quite often). Reasons why I'm against a change:
  1. The current system is implemented in a way we can easily translate it. The "new" design does not look like that'd also apply for it. Unsure
  2. Except for the Free Music of the Week, all sections are updated all the time. And for FMotW there was the idea of having it replaced with "Artist of the Month". Tongue
  3. I love the current design for its straight and simple layout. Hihi
  4. Opposed to that I don't like that design proposal. (Warning: You know that if it comes to design questions, I'm not the one to show mercy in my words.) I'll say straightforward that the dark box shadows make the boxes look clunky; as webdesigner, I have to say the trend goes towards white or light-gray pages with fine lines and large areas. Such a style makes a design look very classy. Cool
  5. The implementation of that page is... - sorry, but is that really done by a professional content team? Shocked If you've got CSS that applies to multiple elements, you add a class to the element and put the CSS into the common stylesheet. I hope the only reason they didn't do it is that implementing changes in the MediaWiki page is difficult because of the persistent caching of the stylesheets.
  6. I like the idea of the twitter gadget, but we should swap the poll and the AotW. Nice
  7. I don't like that "Browse Lyrics" box. It's just the alphabet (with a wrapped zee oh em djee) and a switching title. Not worth being the top box if it's even worth being a box. Sceptical
  8. Sorry to say, but I noticed something: it's intresting how Wikia back then literally raped all the wiki navigations when they switched from Monaco to Oasis, limiting the nav-links to 4 times 7 no-submenu-items. All those beautifully arranged, complex navigations were forced into 28 items, with the argument "people don't like long navigations". Now they praise their new extended navigation with submenues... Um, yeah Rolleyes +1 for the new menu, though. Gives us a lot more possibilities! Smile
All in all, if we decide to do a redesign of our mainpage, I'd like to submit my own design suggestion beforehand. - Chris 00:19, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback! :) I'll respond by number:
  1. Yeah, I definitely think we should keep our implementation translatable. The demo they put up doesn't use it, but I doubt anyone knows about our system except us. Whatever changes we do or don't end up making, I think it make sense to continue doing w/our translation system.
  2. I nuked FMoTW at some point since I didn't think anyone would mind & I was sick of ppl giving me garbage about seeing JoJo every day ;)
  3. The current one is definitely purty & the new one seems mainly based off of the old. It would be nice to do some refreshing though. :)
  4. Clean is good. :) I do like separating sections w/borders though so that they don't bleed together. Maybe the drop-shadows are too much though. You guys are prob. better at that stuff than me so I don't have many more opinions to give on this point ;)
  5. We can make the implementation good and right, so there's nothing to worry about there :) My guess is that you're probably right and he just inlined a bunch of stuff since he'd likely have to change it after our feedback & it's faster to just preview ONE page rather than having to change a MediaWiki:*.css page and wait for the caching to refresh.
  6. Agreed on both points ^_^ twitter gadget works & poll looks good narrower while AotW looks good wider.
  7. Glad you like the new nav :D
— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sean Colombo (talkcontribs), 23:13, December 26, 2011 (UTC). Hihi
Okay, how about making my own proposal within the next days? - Chris 20:17, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
If you're up for it, that would be fantastic! :)
-Sean Colombo 20:24, December 27, 2011 (UTC)
Looks like you got busy (life happens! ^_^). I think they're gonna put up their version from the mockups and then we can dive in and start fixing it (the translation infrastructure, design fixes, everything we mentioned above & whatever else we think works :D ). BOHICA! ;)
-Sean Colombo 01:00, January 18, 2012 (UTC)


Following vs. Watchlist

Hello everybody, Newcomer question of the day: How come that on my user page I see a link to this apparently useless page and not to this very useful page? Is this on purpose? --Rinaku 20:04, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

A very good question. That's what I've been asking all the time, too. But you can customize the toolbar at the bottom of all pages and add your watchlist to it. Hope that helps, Chris 20:11, December 13, 2011 (UTC) Smile
Thanks. But as soon as I understood that Special:Watchlist existed, I could bookmark it. When I signed up 2 months ago, I thought that Following was LyricWiki's or Wikia's standard Watchlist, because I set the language of the interface to French, in which the 2 are translated by the same word Suivi. Only today, as I was starting to write my own watchlist on my user page, did I realize that the URL was not the same as on Wikipedia... --Rinaku 21:55, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


Adding a band of the same name?

So........ the band i wanna add some lyrics for are called The Kick ( these guys) but The Kick they have a page for is..... someone i don't know....

so............. how do we add a page for "MY" The Kick? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paradive (talkcontribs).

Looks like the The Kick that's here already is a band that's not on Discogs, but here they are on Musicbrainz.
For a band/artist with the same name as another band/artist, you can add an identifier in parentheses, usually the country of origin -- for example, The Kick. Trainman 01:36, December 16, 2011 (UTC)
so where's the link to add a new band page? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paradive (talkcontribs).
Anytime you try to go to a nonexistent page, you'll be offered the chance to create that page -- so all you have to do is click on the red "The Click (Sweden)" link above. Trainman 03:39, December 17, 2011 (UTC)
done. everything looks alright (i think... here), but i think i may have misspelled/stylized "BritPop". does that look right?
and how do i add a pic? (nevermind. figured it out.) — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paradive (talkcontribs).
Looks good -- and, in fact, since I last looked, one of the other admins, Senvaikis, decided "your" The Kick should be the main one, so it's now at The Kick and the other one was moved to The Kick (US).
Britpop, with no capital P, is the spelling that's used here. There's also a relatively new template to list band members, genres, and record labels, ArtistInfo, which I added. Trainman 00:43, December 20, 2011 (UTC)


Grooveshark

Grooveshark links (in Song, Album and Artist templates) would possibly be a good idea. They provide a free and legal way to listen to music and you don't even need to have an account.-Athaba 23:46, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea IMO. Should be added to our current templates, and Will definitely be implemented into my T-Line! Smile - Chris 22:18, December 17, 2011 (UTC)
Same thing with Soundcloud. Some artists are there present. At least in the Artist-Template would it be interesting to link to the appropriate Soundcloud-Page. -- Salandas 01:42, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
You may want to look at two already existing templates:
See also artist, album and song pages as the samples of these templates using.
hth, --Senvaikis (talk) 12:29, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the hint to both templates. Based on them I created a SoundCloud-Template (User:Salandas/Templates/Soundcloud, example at Celldweller:Louder_Than_Words). If there are no objections, I'm going to copy this into the Template-Namespace. Additionally I would like to add soundcloud as a parameter into the various footers: If the admins agree I will create you the source you would have to add to them.
Soundcloud offers the possibility to embed songs onto external pages. Has the audio-embed to be go-ear? Else I would try to implement a template to embed the song on the song-pages.
I'm no Grooveshark-User, so if you post URL examples to artists/albums/songs, I will create a template for it. (Chris, are there any requirements to fit the T-Line?) — Salandas (Talk) 22:11, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
Ad legality: Grooveshark is not a good idea to link to: Because it does not have licenses to use the songs its legality is a big qustion mark (see [1]). Additionally several labels (Universal Music, Warner Music, etc...) are suing them because of this (in Germany Grooveshark is already blocked/disabled). We should better add competition which do have the license. — Salandas (Talk) 17:28, January 19, 2012 (UTC)