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LyricWiki talk archive for Community Portal
<< October 2009 Nov – Dec 2009 Jan – ??? 2010 >>


Fandyllic stuffEdit

Hi, I'm new to LyricWiki and started editing, but mostly site maintenance oriented stuff like adding templates. However, I may be being too bold, so I will list what I've already done here and what I plan to do, so it isn't a surprise and I can get approvals before moving forward.

What I've already done
  • Added commented out wikicode to support Wiki-style forums to Forum:Index. You can learn more about them at Help:Forums.
  • Added the following templates:
    • {{t}} - for use displaying template usage.
      • {{t/piece}} - to support {{t}}.
    • {{documentation}} - for template documentation.
    • {{forumheader}} - to support forum usage.
What I hope to do
  • Add lyrics.
  • Report problems on LyricWiki:Help Desk
  • I won't be updating plans and progress here anymore. If I do it will probably be on my user page.

-- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:50 AM PST 14 Nov 2009

I've read the Help:Forums page, and I'm still not sure what benefits that it would have for us. Watercooler appears to be what we use our Community Portal discussion page for, and the Help Desk we already have as well, just in a different location. I'm still open to it, but I'm interested in the benefits of having a Forums system as opposed to what we already have (that is easy for us admins to keep track of). Can you elaborate?    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   20:26, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
At WoWWiki we had a similar system as currently in use at LyricWiki. Using one big page may work, if you only have a few dozen threads going at a time, but over time archiving and editing becomes a pain. I didn't find it too hard to monitor the forums because it would bold threads that were edited that I hadn't read, but I didn't use the watchlist mechanism that much.
The advantages of the forums:
  • Topics are kept separate so they can row large without affecting all the other stuff.
  • Topics sort by last edited at the top, so you don't have the issue where on a big page someone can start a topic anywhere on the page. Even with a watchlist if the page gets really big, you might have to hunt for changes.
  • Referring to a forum topic is easier because it is it's own seperate page, so if you wikilink to it, it will usually stay a good link. With the single page approach, you have to link to a section which may get archived and the link will break.
  • Since forums live in the Forum: namespace, you can restrict searches to that namespace and only get forum results.
  • If the number of topics get really really large, you can make a new forum for archiving them and changing to the archive forum requires only updating the forumheader template at the top.
Disadvantages of the forums:
  • Don't work with watchlists really, unless individual topics are watchlisted.
  • You can still create multiple sections on topic pages and it can get out of control and hard to track.
Perhaps you could ask a Wikia person if there is a way to watchlist a whole forum and that would solve your monitoring problem. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:43 PM PST 13 Nov 2009
Hi Fandyllic and welcome to our wiki. I'm one of the admins here. Now I don't wish to put a downer on your ideas but we already have a system here at LyricWiki which seems to work well. If it didn't we would change it. I'm also of the opinion that if it ain't broke don't fix it. And it ain't broke so...
There are however a million pages in need of editing ;)  Яєdxx Actions Words 17:07, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
There are plenty of things I can work on. I've also found I can override things with my user subpages (like adding Special:Search and Special:WhatLinksHere to the sidebar), so I don't really need to have things change for other folks.
Also, I may just want to wait awhile until the integration with Wikia is more "done" and come back when things are a bit smoother. There are a million pages to edit, but there are also many other wikis to help out with. I may focus on pointing out things that appear "broke" and leave the fixing to you admins. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:31 AM PST 14 Nov 2009


1,000,000 content pages!Edit

Congrats everyone! We've just passed 1 miiiiiiillion content pages (doesn't count talk pages, help pages, etc.). That's taken an enormous amount of hard work by everyone over the last 3.5 years. Great job, guys! You've all made the internets a better place! :D
For the curious, the 1 millionth page was Sonic Syndicate:Freeman which was added by Thepayne. Thanks Thepayne!
Yay!
-Sean Colombo 01:45, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Congrats. That makes LyricWiki huge! -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:51 PM PST 13 Nov 2009
Credit goes to you Sean. Congratulations!  Яєdxx Actions Words 17:00, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
congratz mate =) LYRIC-Rumpel 19:59, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
Good job, Sean. I'm glad the 1,000,000th page is a regular page and not a Gracenote or a userpage. - Chris 23:49, November 13, 2009 (UTC) P.S.: How about adding a note in the editor's corner?


Motive Force LLCEdit

I assume Motive Force LLC was LyricWiki's previous host as I see the name mentioned all over the place. It looks like the fact that Motive Force was a non-profit might affect licensing of images and such. Have you asked Wikia about this issue? I believe Wikia has permission to use Wikipedia content via CC-by-SA, but I'm not sure about other stuff. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:11 PM PST 13 Nov 2009

Motive Force isn't a non-profit actually. But good catch that it's still listed here... since it doesn't own any of this site, we should clean that up. However, LyricWiki did convert to CC-by-SA before the deadline so that it was compatible with all other CC-by-SA sites so there should be no issue there.
-Sean Colombo 19:49, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


Hi thereEdit

I'm retired admin from WoWWiki that has stumbled across LyricWiki and want to help out. I wasn't sure how to go about it so I just started adding things I've seen used and helpful at WoWWiki and other wikis, but I probably should explain what I'm doing and plan to do, so people don't get upset and can approve of what I'm doing or plan to do.

Since I'm not specifically asking for help, I'll be posting my plans and progress at LyricWiki talk:Community Portal. I LyricWiki moves to the forums, I'll probably start posting at Forum:Watercooler (or whatever name it ends up having). -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:50 PM PST 12 Nov 2009

I've decided I'm not really going to work on stuff that has sitewide effects (forums, templates, etc.), since I sense admin resistance, so I'll be doing the standard adding lyrics and reporting problems here. I will join discussions at LyricWiki talk:Community Portal, but I'm not going to be posting plans and progress there (it seems kind of self-important, anyway). -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:48 AM PST 14 Nov 2009


Some issuesEdit

Being new here, I ran into a couple of problems right away. They aren't big, but maybe someone could look at them.

  • No obvious link to LyricWiki:Community Portal on the main page or sidebar. A direct link to LyricWiki:Help Desk would be nice too. Green check
  • Common CSS seems to assume a dark text. I used the Wikia Monaco Gaming skin where default text is white, so much of it was unreadable over the white backgrounds.
  • The Wikia interlinking mechanism that allows internal style linking between Wikia wikis doesn't work. On most Wikia wikis, the following link would go to Help.Wikia.com: w:c:help:, but not on LyricWiki.

Otherwise, I'm looking forward to contributing. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:07 PM PST 12 Nov 2009

Most of the interwiki links had to be switched off because many interfered with links to our song and album pages. For example, having the "w:" prefix link to Wikia pages meant that the lone song by W was inaccessible. AFAIK (Kyle never told us) the only currently enabled IW links are "wikia:" (try wikia:c:help:) and "wikipedia:". — 6×9 (Talk) 18:25, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
Welcome Fandyllic!
  • The side-bar still needs some work and will be getting some more facelifts soon, I'll keep in mind the Community Portal links, etc. (I also heard that each user can customize their own sidebar, so I'll look into that).
  • Do you think MediaWiki:Common.css should specify color:#000 explicitly on body? Does that sound like it would do the trick afayk?
  • For the interwiki linking, we have just have to spell out 'wikia' on this wiki instead of just w, so: wikia:c:help works. That's partially because W is a valid artist name. - oops, 6 beat me to it ;)
It's great to have you on board :)
Thanks,
-Sean Colombo 18:28, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
Quote: "No obvious link to LyricWiki:Community Portal on the main page or sidebar."
I don't know which skin you use, but with old Monobook-Skin the second link "LyricWiki-Portal" links to LyricWiki:Community Portal - Chris 18:54, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
I think the default skin for new users is Monaco Sapphire, so you should probably check popular pages under that skin. I started with Monaco Gaming (dark background with white text), switched to Monaco Slate and now I'm using Monaco Sapphire to see what new users will see.
It appears there are no links to Community Portal or Help Desk on the sidebars of any of the Monaco skins.-- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:26 AM PST 13 Nov 2009
I think all Monaco-XY skins are the same in how they are built, they just differ in the colours. I cannot use Monaco as some navigation-features (f. e. to the settings) require JS to be enabled (for the dropdown) which is disabled because I cannot Select, Copy & Paste otherwise (which is a onehundred percent nogo for serial edits like I do) - Chris 12:33, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm... why can't you Select/Copy/Paste with JS enabled? That seems strange. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:56 PM PST 13 Nov 2009
One point of Wikia-Gracenote-Agreement is to put a script on the pages to protect lyrics from being selected to be copied. I blocked the script because I very often have to copy parts of lyricspages, f. e. some template stuff, parameters or even the complete page to feed it into my LWS Lyric-Translator.
Unfortunately the script cannot be disabled without affecting the others, so I had to block JScripts for lyrics.wikia.com in general and then again allow several ones that don't hinder me from C&P. This still makes some things a lot harder, e. g. the extended watchlist isn't collapsing edits anymore or the toolbar above the edit-areas doesn't show up now. But compared to always typing every template in an external editor just to be able to copy it, it's far less annoying that way. - Chris 20:21, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
Ahh, I see. I don't know what browser you use as your primary, but you could use a different browser just for Monaco previewing. Since Monaco is default (assuming you don't change it), templates and such should probably be tested with it. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:57 PM PST 13 Nov 2009
@Chris, if you are using Firefox, you may enjoy the Greasemonkey script for Lyricwiki - it turns off this irritating feature for you. -- random stranger, 16 Nov 2009
I'm trying to keep a bit of an editors documentation for getting around working with these "features": User:LYRIC-Humbug/This_Is_Legal. Hope it helps and give me any tips you've found. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 00:50, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
@ random stranger: the script is great! It really works, no need for a bookmarklet or so, just install the Script and enjoy the old functionality ^_^ - Chris 17:55, November 17, 2009 (UTC) I'm currently working on some design enhancements exchangable as Stylish-CSS-Markup. I think I'll offer it to you when I'm ready.


Red link below edit areaEdit

Every time I edit, I see a red Wikia:Licensing link in the sentence under the edit area:

All contributions to LyricWiki are considered to be released under the Copyright (see Wikia:Licensing for details).

It looks like it is related to the "w:" problem. It should probably link to wikia:Wikia:Licensing? -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:36 AM PST 14 Nov 2009

I believe you're right. Thanks for bringing our attention to this. It is something we had noticed but sometimes it takes someone to say something for it to get fixed.  Яєdxx Actions Words 07:47, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
Green check  Яєdxx Actions Words 15:49, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


Upload Images noteEdit

I just added the information about uploading Artist photos (and the {{ArtistPhoto}} template) to the Special:Upload page. I figred that this was necessary, seeing as how these are the pictures that are most likely to be copyright violations. (Album art is a fair use thing, but using a non-Creative Commons picture isn't.) This additional info puts the actual upload form at a point that requires scrolling, but that might actually be a plus, I don't know.

Note to other admins: I think that we need to be really strict about these Artist pictures and delete or replace those we come across without this {{ArtistPhoto}} information. Now that the lyrics are legal and licensed, no sense getting into trouble with a copyrighted picture of Lady GaGa.  :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   19:16, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

In that case, you'd also have to be strict with uploads like this one (as a glaring negative example). Nearly 90% too big... - Chris 21:56, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
I just have a quick question. According to the album cover policy page, "To comply with the law of fair use, the image should not be any bigger than 500x500 px² and preferably less than 153600 bytes." Are there any exceptions to this rule? For example (specifically this is the one I'm wondering about): File:NIN - Halo 27 - The Slip.jpg, of which I uploaded the 1200×1200 px² version. The album is Creative Commons licensed (and I assume the artwork possibly is too). I uploaded the version that came with the download from their official site. Is there anything against this? Or do we also need to scale this down? --WillMak050389 22:33, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
Those are kind of a different issue from copyright, but I guess since we're on the subject.... :-] Really, both of those should be reduced in size to 500x500-ish. They're both album covers and so are covered under fair use, but not if they're a format that is large enough to make a high-quality print from. That is the primary reason why the 500x500 guideline is there.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   02:30, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
I agree that larger album covers should be resized and the image guidelines enforced. LW will never be a source for high quality album covers so there's not much point in having a few. One reason for this is the copyright nazi's on WP who think we're out to ruin music. But for these sorts of things, policy is good. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 11:44, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
Besides from the policies, what's the advantage of such big pictures? Neither AlbumArt nor the Album pages display high-res pictures, and therefore it's even three times worse than small pictures:
  1. The pictures are not protected by fair use.
  2. The pictures need a longer time to load.
  3. After loading a long time it takes some extra time to resize the picture for displaying.
Chris 17:55, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
#3 isn't true, actually – the Mediawiki software only resizes once and then stores the resized version for future use. — 6×9 (Talk) 18:28, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
6's point applies to #2 and #3. All the conversions are done server side. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 05:03, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


Crediting - Lyricist vs. PerformerEdit

I noticed that most of the songs lyrics here credit performers and not lyricists (aka who actually wrote the words). Why is that? It seems like lyrics are the work of the lyricist or at least the songwriter(s) and not the performer. As good as Frank Sinatra is, he shouldn't get credit for the lyrics of all the songs he performed.

This is not a specific criticism of LyricWiki. Likely alot of this problem was perpetuated by scraping of bots from other sites that got it wrong. I'm just wondering if there is any plan to change this? -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:44 AM PST 14 Nov 2009

Most (if not all)credits were added by an actual person. (I don't recall a bot working on credits at any rate.) In the Help section for Credits, adding the lyricist is mentioned. As with all things human, however, errors and omissions can happen. Often, if the lyricist is unknown (as with a group such as The Black Eyed Peas, who credit their songs to all members involved and don't differentiate who wrote what), or is the same as the composer, than just a "Written by:" line is used. Adding credits is really an individual, human job, requiring the research of music fans, so I'm not sure what can be done globally.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   02:33, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
I am not personally aware of any credits, either on the Frank Sinatra pages or any others, that would seem to be wrong. So can you provide an example please Fandyllic?  Яєdxx Actions Words 07:43, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
I started looking at more Sinatra songs and it isn't bad as I thought. I ran across 4 or 5 in a row just clicking through some that had no credits.
Here is a list of some I found:
I found these by just clicking around in Frank Sinatra albums and songs. I did notice certain really well known lyricists like Cole Porter and Ira Gershwin usually did get credited.
I was just wondering if the standard song template should include optional music writer and lyricist fields rather than leaving it up to people to add it below the lyrics. -- Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:45 PM PST 16 Nov 2009
Thanks for clearing that up. I suspected you had got that wrong as I have spent many a long hour working on the Sinatra pages.
So if I understand you correctly, what you meant to say was not that the songwriting credits are wrongly attributed to the performers, but that the songwriting credits are missing on a lot of our pages?
Yes I agree. They are. The reason for this is twofold. Firstly, songwriting credits weren't generally added to song pages until a few months ago when it was decided that we wanted to actively encourage their inclusion. Secondly, we have over a million pages. And of these million pages, more than 1000 relate solely to Sinatra I think you just talked yourself into a job;)
Please feel free to research and add these where they are missing.  Яєdxx Actions Words 01:28, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
I also think it might help to have a lyricist or credits tag in the template to help encourage future submissions to include this. I know that as I'm getting started with this (I'm on a mission to have all songs on my iPhone contain lyrics, so as I come across songs that have no lyrics, I'm working on getting them here as well), I'm forgetting a lot of even what is IN the templates, but then working on another song will remind me and I go back to fix it. So, having an entry in the templates for lyricist might help me if no one else :) Danitaz 01:10, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
Hm, I'd not put it in the SongFooter because there're too many possibilities of what can be added. "Composer, lyricist, maybe even a list of several people who were involved had to be covered, furthermore the're song which even have annotations about who performed what (vocals, bass, drums etc.) - so there'd be a bunch of new parameters. But it'd maybe be worth to create a "Credits" template?
By the way, the {{Song Info}} template has got a parameter "credits", and a song mustn't be ranked "gold" without credits. - Chris 13:56, December 1, 2009 (UTC)


Moving and another problemEdit

I don't see a Move button on the top tab? There is only Edit this page, History, Watch, Share this article Bluedot42 01:30, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

I have a feeling that there is a waiting period before the Move tab is added for new users to help limit vandalism, but I don't know for sure.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   04:17, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
Just an FYI - I too didn't see a move, and sent a "help" request about it today, and almost immediately it appeared. So I don't know if it was a coincidence that it showed up for me or if a real live human being set something that gave me that tab! Danitaz 01:17, December 1, 2009 (UTC)


Is it normal that I can not select lyrics in lyrics-box?Edit

If yes, imho, this is stupid idea & smb hold me to not delete all lyrics i've brought, because it's...i've told. Any one can select lyrics by pressing EDIT but why should i do that?! It takes lots of time :( — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oleh Bardiuk (talkcontribs).

Yes, it is normal, it's to prevent users from copying the lyrics, therefore rightclicking is also disabled as well as CTRL+A. The embedding of protection-scripts against copying is part of a licensing contract between Wikia and music publishers.
However this topic was discussed above please read the last few posts - Chris 14:39, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


{{Split}} changesEdit

There have been a few changes made to the above template, which affects the dreaded "Other Songs" list on artist pages. Please see the discussion on the template's talk page for further details.  Яєdxx Actions Words 08:32, November 22, 2009 (UTC)


What's Happening Here?Edit

I was just wondering what was happening with all those imported seemingly not yet existant image files. There seems to be quite a fewÑôīέ2çяȳTalk 17:35, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Only three Undeletables left, thanks to delete.py :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 16:22, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


New iTunes link maker format. Changes neededEdit

From Seans talk page [1]. We need to update documentation and figure out how the template should handle it's input. I don't have time to look into it now so, go for it :P LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 02:08, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Great roundup from Senv: [Format Regexes] (Link fixed after a long time!). We need to decide on how we should update current links (in sf, af, etc.) and what format we should require from now on. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 05:04, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone familiar with the syntax of the string parser functions and willing to update the templates to search for "id=". if "id=" is found, give the old link format, else give the new format list. From what I've picked up, this should be possible with the parser functions. We can then change any parameters given in the current format to the newer format later.

As far as the new link format goes, I think the most simple one is most probably the best one. (We will of course have to include the LW referral codes into the link...). It's also simple to change country which is great. This means we could link to US by default and give links in brackets afterwards to other countries e.g. "(GB AU FR)". How we do the other countries can also be a bit different. Maybe we get data to see which countries have the highest lw traffic and always link the them, or make a "more countries" button that expands to give 20 different links, or always just link to us because you'd most likely click "view in iTunes" anyway. We could also make another parameter "iTunesCountry" to link to a country other then us.

What are your thoughts? I've probably brought up more questions then I've answered... I'm sure we'll get there eventually. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 06:41, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Apparently the links continue to work! :D I don't know if anyone has found already but the links are reversed. I mean that the iTunes link maker has id279631298?i=279632085 but if you change it to i=279632085&id=279631298&s=143448 it works! Hope I helped. Titaki 11:18, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I figured that out shortly after the link format changed back in November, so I've been editing them into that old format ever since, and can practically do it with my eyes closed now -- cut i=(number) portion, paste at beginning, ampersand, equals sign after id, delete question mark, add &s=143441 (143441 because I'm a United Statesian type). Albums/artists seem to still work with just the id=279631298 portion. Probably should have said something here for the benefit of other editors. But I guess Humbug figured out the same thing, based on the above. Unfortunately, I know nothing about templates, so I can't be of any assistance with that aspect of things. Trainman 16:15, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
Exactly, the format has changed but the data is still the same. Now all we need is the templates to accept both versions. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 06:33, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Not exactly so simple, Humbug :). Yes, we still can construct a valid iTunes link, knowing the format, supported by current template, and making mentioned 'closed eyes' manipulations on ITLM gerated data... But only for albums/songs, which are available on iTunes US store. If you wanna link to some item, available only on UK store f.e., you'll not find any info, required to construct such link. And you'll not find any help neither in current ITLM, nor in our Help. Former ITLM format contained part "&s=143444", pointing to UK iT store. Now this part is transformed into "/gb/" inside the link. So, - now ordinary user will not be able to construct a valid link to non-US iTunes item anymore - he assuredly doesn't know that this "/gb/" part corresponds to "&s=143444" in old format!. If he tries to fill an iT parameter for album Uriah Heep:Sweet Freedom (1973), using ITLM, - default search (on US store) will fail. Searching in UK store will give him a list of songs on that album, but all links will be of type "http://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/pilgrim/id251288306?i=251288363&uo=6" - how could this ordinary user then construct required parameter "iTunes=id=251288306&s=143444"?. That's why template (and help docs) modification should be more serious imo, - including a new way of iT store managing.--Senvaikis (talk) 13:05, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Blech, they sure didn't make that very backwards-compatible. I've been looking at this for the past hour or so (mostly emails they'd sent, Senv's examples, and our current templates but there is also this pdf with instructions in case we get lost). Here is my proposal on two diff ways we could fix this:
  1. The Easy Way
    1. Current links will work the same way. We'll point the iTunes parameter from the footers to a template called {{iTunes old}} or something similar.
    2. New parameter: iTunesId which will take the id12345?i=55555 format.
    3. Add a parameter for iTunesCC (country code) for "us", "gb", etc.
    4. If it has a &s=xxx country id, make the template add it to a category of songs needing template updates (a bot should be able to clear them out). Once the bot is done, remove this functionality all together.
  2. The Hard Way
    1. Keep the same parameter and have the parser figure out whether it's in id=xxx format or idxxx?i=yyy format and dispatch to {{iTunes old}} where needed. Since this would involve slow-parsing, we would add all pages which use iTunes_old to a category so that we could go through and update them. Once they are gone, we would remove iTunes old and the parsing to figure out whether to use it.
    2. Add a parameter for iTunesCC (country code) for "us", "gb", etc.
    3. If it has a &s=xxx country id, make the template add it to a category of songs needing template updates (a bot should be able to clear them out). Once the bot is done, remove this functionality all together.
Thoughts? Speak up quickly :) I'm going to try to do this all very quickly so I don't start to forget what I learned since the whole situation is kind of confusing.
-Sean Colombo 01:03, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I prefer the second option (it worked pretty well in the past for other external links). Shouldn't be too hard with StringFunctions either. I'd rather continue to keep it all in one parameter though and have the template check for a country code… — 6×9 (Talk) 05:26, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Wholly agree to 6 (keeping all together in 1 parameter) --Senvaikis (talk) 06:18, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
That makes sense - I'll do it that way (#2 but with only one param). Thanks for the input :) ...Just outlining what I'm doing so that others can pick up the torch if I can't finish before I leave tonight (I'll be out all day tomorrow flying to the Polish office, then for about a week we're going to be heads-down focusing on site-speed).
Here's my plan: I'll make the templates listed below and test them on User:Sean Colombo/iTunes Test. Once completed, some will be moved to the destination page listed. (btw: we test on copied templates so that each change doesn't set off hundreds of thousands of jobs to our already backed-up job queue)
  1. Template:ITunesTest and Template:ITunesTest/doc will be moved to Template:ITunes and Template:ITunes/doc when complete. It will be meant to process links in the new format.
  2. Template:ITunes old will be left where it is. It will be intended to process links in the old format.
  3. Template:SongFooterTest and Template:SongFooterTest/doc will be moved to Template:SongFooter and Template:SongFooter/doc to add the functionality of choosing whether to use the old or new iTunes formats.
Will keep you updated if I get through it.
-Sean Colombo 23:35, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
I'm out of time for the moment. The docs on the test templates are updated to a point that I'm pretty comfortable with them, and the test page to make sure they're working has been created, but the two templates needing changes (Template:ITunesTest and Template:SongFooterTest) haven't been messed with yet.
I don't know much about StringFunctions tricks anyway, so if someone can step in and take a stab at getting those to work, that's probably the fastest way to get this done. Once the templates work, we can make the switch, then write a bot to update the old format links to use the new country-codes.
This is a tricky one... thanks for any help that any of you can give!
-Sean Colombo 01:34, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
Template:SongFooterTest works now. Just have to get Template:ITunesTest working. -Sean Colombo 19:11, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
I think I got it totally working as described above. Check out the test results here: User:Sean_Colombo/iTunes_Test. Unless someone finds a bug pronto, I'm gonna turn it live tomorrow and rock the gigantic job-queue.
-Sean Colombo 19:40, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! --Senvaikis (talk) 22:28, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
Tested now more carefully - my doubts were reasonable, but I think it's not a crucial problem - anyhow all links will be tranformed into new format. --Senvaikis (talk) 07:47, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
Awesome! Thanks for testing. Yes, that bug makes it pretty urgent for us to have a bot go through and fix all old links. It looks like things are good enough to go live, so I'll pull start pulling the switch in a minute. Thanks for all of the help!
-Sean Colombo 08:02, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
The new template is live and should me making its way through pages as they are purged (the job-queue surprisingly only jumped to 5k, so maybe something is wrong there). There still remains work for bots/humans/cyborgs to update old links (especially those from other languages), but finally the templates are up to date. If anyone wants to archive this hideously long thread, be my guest ;)
Thanks to everyone (especially Senv!) for all of the hard work to help get this working!
-Sean Colombo 08:37, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

(Unindenting & resuming)

  • Tranforming of sf.iT is mostly finished; untouched list contains mostly songs with links to album (see discussion here) or songs with some blacklisted text (usually - "nigg*") and hooked by spamfilter .
  • Albums are transformed too, but here we have some problem to be resolved. Current AlbumFooter seems to be working with both af.iT formats ("id=###" & "id###"), opening a proper webpage for particular album. But linking between this webpage and iTunes application is broken for both formats now (works for songs however). Unfortunatelly 6 still works on his archaic computer (iTunes are too 'heavy' for it ;)) and just can't fix this problem, so all our hopes are addressed to Sean again :) --Senvaikis (talk) 08:55, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
Just now discovered that SF & AF are still using different itunes templates. So, I'm taking back my words: 6'll fix that at once, - I'm sure :). --Senvaikis (talk) 12:50, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
Additional info: take for diagnostics two songs: Jon Lord:Gigue and Jon Lord:Finale - both have 'cropped' iT links, pointing to the same album instead of song, but in different formats. Old-formatted link communicates with iTunes app, leading to the required album, new-formatted - doesn't. --Senvaikis (talk) 14:51, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
Oddly enough, for me both links lead to the iT album page. Only difference is that old-style link ends up at a URL with album title, but without the partnerID (while new-style has partnerID but no album title). So before you buy anything via one of those links make sure it's a new-style link, else you'll lose us money :-) — 6×9 (Talk) 18:52, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
Sure, they both do lead to the same webpage (haven't I mentioned that already?). Exactly at this moment our problem just begins, because this page onLoad event should call iTunes app (open it if it wasn't opened yet) and then find and open the same album page, but in iTunes app. Template:ITunes old does that perfectly (with song Jon Lord:Finale), while Template:ITunes - fails (with Jon_Lord:Gigue). Once more: both are doing their job prfectly for songs (i.e., links with "i=" part). --Senvaikis (talk) 19:50, March 8, 2010 (UTC)


Copy ProtectionEdit

As there are a lot of people asking "why can't I copy lyrics" or "LW is broken! can't select!", I'm suggesting some code should go into song pages to show that the lyrics are copy protected and give a link to a short description of the current licensing agreement. The best option as far as I can see atm, would be some code in the <lyrics> parser that displays the message. Another alternative is code in the {{song}} template that does the same thing. I think it should be a copyright symbol somewhere, top right of lyric box, next to the star, on the background of the lyrics box, wherever, and possibly with a link. Check out my mockup (and as it looks on a song page). What are your thoughts? LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 08:48, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

It'd be much easier to have an announcement explicitly on this topic in the editor's corner, so it's displayed on the mainpage. Changing the Song-template would cause an enormous queue load; it'd take several days to apply it as well as several days to remove it again after a time. I think it's always better to write it wherever users could look it up: Community Portal Main- and Talk-page, HelpDesk, Mainpage, Editor's corner, FAQ, and a small note at the top of every admin talk page ;), all linked to a single announcement - Chris 09:57, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
I did think about the queue. An editors corner post is a good idea. I still like the idea of a background image (like the no-copyright background on mediawiki) LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 12:01, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
A background image could be added to the lyricbox class (roughly like this, but preferably less ugly) without killing the job queue. Editor's corner is a good idea, but I wonder how many users actually read it… What would be nice, I think, is a tooltip-like infobox that pops up whenever a user tries to select text or right-click. — 6×9 (Talk) 12:21, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
Background idea is cool, but I'd prefer to use a smaller icon and maybe a phrase like "Selection protected lyrics"... Best protection I've ever seen is on metrolyrics.com - they save lyrics encoded and decode them by JavaScript for displaying. Too bad for them I am much stronger than their protection Lol - Chris 13:24, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
They'll only be able to stop us if they give us the lyrics as one big captcha... :P Maybe a combination of both. A background image and some grey text in the top right (but not in a box)? LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 02:28, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


UserboxesEdit

Some new userboxes for you: Template:Userboxes/Hometown. The others can be found by following the links in this category: Category:Userboxes/Nationality.  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:14, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

thanks. is it possible to add an Austrian Template? thx. Parsprototo 12:21, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
thanks for adding Parsprototo 09:06, April 2nd, 2010 (UTC)
You're welcome :) - Chris 18:43, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


Language-Code subdomainsEdit

Hi all,

via Google I stumbled over language-code subdomains of lyrics.wikia.com: http://de.lyrics.wikia.com/, http://fr.lyrics.wikia.com/, http://nl.lyrics.wikia.com/, maybe more. What’s up with these? Are these in preparation to provide localized user interfaces? In the current state these sites are not very friendly: They don’t contain lyrics… --Hfs·· 17:39, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget, the domain is "wikia.com" and not "lyrics.wikia.com", so these are no subdomains but similar named wiki-projects also hosted on wikia. - Chris 00:06, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


Old account?Edit

I just realized that I am not using the same account I originally created when lyricwiki was a standalone site. Is there any way to merge my edit history from my old account into this one? --Bytesmythe 00:33, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

There is. Report your issue here. - Chris 00:42, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks very much!! Bytesmythe 02:46, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


Editorial Guidance Request - Are these edits appropriate?Edit

All:

Fundamental question here is where does a credit box belong? On the album page or on the song page?

The question arises because of recent changes made by user jomidi against the album and songs of Los_Lobos:Will_The_Wolf_Survive. Prior to jomidi's changes, the musicians were listed in the credit section of each song. After his/her changes the musicians have been removed from the song page and placed in a credit box on the album.

I can see the point to a limited extent - the list of musician's for each song is the same - the members of the band. So one could argue, I suppose that there is a lot of needless duplication. I'm not sure I buy that and I think important info has been lost or made more difficult to find. And the editing guidelines call out for a credit box on song pages. The help on album pages makes no reference to a credit box on an album page

So before I go and undo these changes, can someone provide some guidance? Are these edits legit and reflect editing policy and I should leave them alone? Or can I/should I undo them?

Thx,

Steve 18:26, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure if we have a "rule" for this but my feeling is that these edits should be undone. Wait for further views on this though. LYRIC-Humbug wordsdeeds 03:49, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
We've been trying to push for credits on the song pages ever since the site implemented the page ranking system. At least the composer and lyricist should be given, but more info is greatly appreciated. (We love songs here, and that means that we love those that make the songs, and they deserve all the credit that they can get.) The song page is the "official" place for credits. That people also put credits on album pages is perfectly fine, however. As long as the info isn't clogging up the page, of course. On an album page, however, there really isn't that much normally on it except for the track listing, so I can't imagine it becoming an issue. So, the credits on the song pages should be restored.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   04:15, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
Added Question for Steve: It appears as though the credits, however for the songs on that Los Lobos album, are all the same. Perhaps that's the issue and why they were removed? Saying that Louie Perez played Drums, Guitar, & Quinto on every track couldn't possibly be correct, right? Although I'd love to see someone play drums, guitar, and quinto at the same time!  :-] The credits should really reflect the actual performance on the piece.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   04:21, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
The CD booklet does not provide specific info on who plays what on any given track. Essentially each track is marked as played by Los Lobos and here are the members and the various instruments played for this album. Like you I suspect this is the reason behind the edits. Having added musician credits to alot of albums, this is not a unique situation by any means - many CDs provide only the band members and the instruments played on the album not on the song. My feeling is that the information - even if not definitive - should be attached to the song. When I look at a song I want to know who played what and not have to remember that "oh yeah - there are no musician credits - I should check the album info" My 2 cents Steve 18:53, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
I understand and agree in principle. If you can tell that (for instance) a Quinto isn't played on a song, you might want to remove that from the list, however. Be as thorough and yet minimalist as possible.  :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   05:34, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
"Although I'd love to see someone play drums, guitar, and quinto at the same time!" I think someone needs to be introduced to the concept of multitrack recording. Note: Just a joke -- I am fairly certain that Kiefer is already familiar with the concept of multitrack recording. Trainman 20:01, December 21, 2009 (UTC)


Tidying upEdit

Hello everyone,

I'm currently trying to clear out Special:WantedCategories. However, there are lots of categories (especially labels). Maybe someone wants to help me? Well, even if not you might be interested in the Greasemonkey script I wrote for that Special page: LyricWiki Filter WantedCategories.
As the name says, it allows you to filter the displayed entries so you can easily search for "Label/" for example. It even generates a list of filter suggestions. Install it like every other GM-script by extracting it, and then open the js-file with Firefox. GM takes care of the rest. Happy holidays =) - Chris 17:18, December 29, 2009 (UTC)


Pages That Should Be RedirectsEdit

There are A LOT OF THEM! Is it just me? Any time there seems to be a semi-common misspelling of a song title, it's not a redirect page, it's a page with lyrics on it. Misspelled song pages are supposed to be redirects, right? I've been redirecting the ones I've found after verifying the correct title and making sure it actually exists as a page with lyrics, but I seem to be the only one bothering :> I'm sure that's not the case, but geez there are a lot, so it feels like it. Argh, just needed to vent. Korbine 22:57, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, at the moment Senv and me are currently working on a project to redirect some pages that do not meet LyricWiki:Page Names, and Sean (as well as 6) is about to fix some issues with something like auto-forwarding to similar titles for known redirects... It's just that there are sooooo many pages it's hardly noticeable. A happy new year to you =) - Chris 23:46, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
Happy New Year to you! It's good to know other people are trying to fix this as well, because I would definitely throw my hands up in surrender weeeeeellll before I got to them all if I had to do it alone :D Korbine 03:05, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
Also, there are still many artists that have these misspelled/mispunctuated pages listed in their Other Songs section. These may have been gathered by a bot or submitted by a real live human being who wasn't as careful as some or perhaps didn't know the pagenaming standards of the site. So, redirect these whenever you can, as you have been. While the project may fix some of these, it may not (probably won't?) fix all of them.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   21:59, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
Hi, since the topic is like an evergreen, just a short status update: The LyricWiki:Page Names project was IMO very successful and gathered 8000 pages that already have been moved and redirected. Yet there are still many pages which couldn't be moved automatically, because the correctly named pages already existed. As a bot isn't able to see which page is better formatted, it skipped the pages. A new run is executed now, results tomorrow. - Chris 22:04, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


(Pagesize = 53,280)