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Spanish? Edit

I don't really understand this category thing, but I noticed that while, for example, Language/Japanese is under J and Language/Swedish under S, somehow Language/Spanish is sorted under L for Language instead of S for Spanish. Perhaps someone who does understand this can fix it? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mischko (talkcontribs).

Haha I feel so pro now, even helping other users answer this same question now (see below)! rofl --Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:52, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Multiple (the other meaning) Edit

What can we do with song that are in Spanglish (Spanish/English)? Or Konglish (Korean/English)? Can we have another kind of Category:Language/Several? --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 06:35, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Dear Åqúàŧĩkī,
I'm sorry it has taken nine months to reply to your post, however a new category has now been created in line with your request Category:Multilingual I trust this meets with your approval ;)
Happy editing!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:18, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
Did you see what M suggested we do Language:Multilingual? ... This message is from before I was an admin or even knew what I was doing! What a goof, spelling all funny! --Aquatiki - T - E 11:03, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
Ok you trumped me, my mistake Category:Language/Multilingual (and there was me trying to be all witty and clever...hee hee). No, I thought it was a very good question. It may even have been after that that one of the two categories was created.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 11:21, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Thai Category Edit

Why Category:Language/Thai doesn't display on Category:Language? How I fix it?— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mehn (talkcontribs).

The category page needs to be created with a link to the original category. Check out the source to see how to do it yourself next time. Thanks for your message! --Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:51, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Language categorization Edit

I went through the Wanted categories and though it was pretty slow and I got the same results on different pages, I made a temporary list of non-existing language categories for which the songs should be moved. The list is going to be at Category talk:Language/Move list. --Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 05:31, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

See Category talk:Language/Move list

Serbian languagesEdit

According to Serbian language (Wikipedia), and Serbo-Croatian language, it looks like the communists forces people of two similar languages to become one. The fact that they're not still so today seems to indicate that they're not really one language. Given the politics of today, I would put S-C-B under Bosnian and S-C under Croatian. If speakers want to dispute that, we can deal with it as it comes up, but as a rule of thumb, the Serbians were the heavy-handed majority in the former Yugoslavia. --Aquatiki - T - E 08:04, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

OK, sounds sensible to me. Moving to above section. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 10:19, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Farsi & HindiEdit

I think moving Hindi & Farsi together is not advisable. These languages are not understood by the same people, and Farsi is best labeled as Persian, since "Farsi" is the Persian word for the language. cheers EchoSierra 13:30, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Totally agree. These languages are not close to each other, only geographically. Totally different scripts, totally different peoples. Not a good idea. --Aquatiki - T - E 15:03, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
Farsi moved to Persian  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:08, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Multilingual Edit

We also need to consider what we are going to do with the songs in this category Category:Multilingual, which I believe was originally intended to categorize those songs where the singer switches from one language to another. I suggest SandBot re-categorizes the language for these also as "Multilingual" and therefore puts them in Category:Language/Multilingual. Also a user just raised a good point regarding these type of songs, like how many words before it is considered to be "Multilingual"?  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:30, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

On another page, a user asked a question about this song. I suggested to tag it as "Russian" because I don't really find that a multilingual song. There probably isn't a good answer in terms of a definite numerical limit. IMO it will always be an objective decision to tag a song as multilingual. Unless we just decide that any song with multiple languages (like the example I gave above) is tagged as multilingual, but I don't think that is what we want.Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:12, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
I too had similar question from a user and like you I advised that the three or four words in English did not constitute it being "Multilingual". He didn't either. So on that we probably all agree. Common sense should dictate but as you rightly say it is always going to be an objective decision. ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:35, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
The other question is, how we are going to categorize those songs. Do we just put them in Category:Language/Multilingual (or Multiple languages, or something like that)? Or do we want to make subcategories there? Or do we tag them under the "main" language (in my example, Russian) and add a "Multilingual" parameter which also puts it in Multilingual (something like: |multilingual=English => Category:Language/Multilingual/English with Russian)? Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:12, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
My brain hurts! (lol) Ok I haven't really thought this all through but I thought I would just impart my thoughts/findings thus far:
  • The songs now re-categorised Category:Language/Multilingual are "switched" songs, songs where the singer switches between two or more languages. Many of these songs are therefore also in Category:Multilingual. (Note to self - there is no "Language" in that category's title.)
  • What has become clear through this exercise is that we need to make very clear to users exactly what they should enter in the language parameter of Song Footer for "switched" and translated songs. For as you, me and Aqua now know, these translated songs have already presented us with a few problems, due to the sub categories we have now created.
  • I think users could easily be persuaded to insert: |language = English-French
    where they would otherwise have wanted to enter:|language = English/French, that wouldn't seem to me to present any major problem. However, we would need to be very precise about the order in which the languages were entered, because of course if you enter the word French before the word English, you are effectively creating another separate (and surplus) category.
  • I also need to know how to proceed with these multilingual "switched songs" as I confess I am getting a little confused:
  1. Do we simply want to enter "Multilingual" in language parameter of Song Footer for all these switched songs?
  2. If the answer to that is yes, do we want to ask users to apply a separate Category template at the bottom of song page defining the different languages (e.g. Category:Language/English-French) and instruct the exact order in which these multiple languages should be placed?
  3. Or do we simply want to direct users to enter, e.g. English-French (in that exact order) in the language parameter of Song Footer for all songs that switch between two or more languages (regardless of which language predominates)?
 ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:35, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
I am a bit tired at the moment, so I'm not going to think it all through right now and get back at you right away. But it just occurred to me that the simplest solution for the multi-language categories is alphabetical ordering. So: English-French, Bosnian-Croatian-Serbian, English-Latin-Russian-Zulu, etc. Since English starts with an E (no stuff, Sherlock!) it will be at the front most of the time anyway. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 10:02, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes agreed. I think we will come back to this one later. If needs be.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 16:02, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Alphabetical ordering completed.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:21, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

TranslationsEdit

I have been amending these in templates to Main cat/Sub cat where sub categories exist, e.g. Fantasy/Elvish, etc. Help pages will need to be updated to assist users completing the templates for these songs and other type of multilingual songs that we are putting into subcategories, e.g. English/Old English, etc.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 23:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

I propose removing the auto-categorization from {{Translation}}, since we more-or-less want to make the language parameter for {{SongFooter}} mandatory anyway. I just moved the one song in "Medieval French" to "French/Medieval French", but apart from the SongFooter parameter I also had to add the optional parameter of Translation to prevent the song from being put both in Category:Language/French and Category:Language/Medieval French. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:18, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes I agree, unless some clever admin wants to do some clever "if" and "true" arguments on the info users enter on the translation templates where the language being entered is in a sub category ;) I'm guessing that would be possible, but would probably take some time to set up. As you rightly say, we want to make the language parameter for {{SongFooter}} mandatory, so it would seem to make sense not to have the translation template auto-mucking this up (hee hee). See also songs such as this where important, relevant and interesting information concerning the type of language has been provided, and where further subsections could exist >>> The_Lord_Of_The_Rings:Breath_Of_Life.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 10:16, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
OK I made the change. The optional parameter is gone, as is the categorization in (subcategories of) Category:Language. I did think it might be useful - or at least, not harmful - to include it in Category:Translated songs. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 05:46, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
My brain is still hurting (lol) so can you help me out here by explaining the above and perhaps show me by providing an example so I can compare/see the difference?  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 07:35, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
Examples over here. The syntax for the Translation template is now: {{Translation}}. No parameters. All songs using it are put in the Translated songs category. That's all. The language information is solely included in {{SongFooter}} now. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 03:56, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Ok I got that now. Thank you.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:10, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

La la la SongsEdit

Another problem are songs with vocals in no special language (e.g. Keren Ann - Caspia)). This has come up twice in the last few days. User_talk:Ignor-the-ant#Languages_parameter  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 07:31, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

I'll tell you my two pence on this: the human voice is an instrument and if you never say an intentional word, the song is instrumental! --Aquatiki - T - E 18:33, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm inclined to agree :-)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 20:37, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
Aqua, see Category:Language/Wordless (hee hee)  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:03, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Huh? Did I miss anything? You state in Category:Language/Wordless that if you fill in "Instrumental", the page is categorized in Category:Language/Instrumental. Then what is the use of Wordless? Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 09:27, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes I think you missed reading Senvaikis' comments at the end of this exchange of posts: User_talk:Ignor-the-ant#Languages_parameter.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 14:25, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Here's something to consider: Instrumental is something very different than when a human sings by vocalising rather than using words. So I'd suggest having "Vocalization" as a seperate category distinct from Instrumental. cheers EchoSierra 14:03, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Rfl..and look where I just come from Category:Language/Instrumental. Ok I reckon we should have a vote on it.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 14:04, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Wordless = Instrumental. I'm Aquatiki and I approve this message. --Aquatiki - T - E 22:01, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Vocalizations do not equal a language. "Instrumental" as a language was used to mark those songs that did not have a language. It doesn't perfectly match what the song is, perhaps, but I think for our purposes, we can definite an instrumental as a song without actual words.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:34, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Redirects? Edit

I think I just sussed this...!! Have a look at this and tell me if you see it as presenting any problems >>> Category:Language/Celtic  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 16:48, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

Mischko, Aqua, anyone?? (If I need to explain what I'm going on about let me know, but the key word is sub-categories).  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:08, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Err, what do you want me to say? If these are Celtic languages, it's fine. But I don't know anything about them, so I can't really comment. I suppose it is ok though. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 09:20, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Sorry, I knew I should've explained. Ok well it's like this. Users aren't likely to enter more than one language in the language parameter no matter what we do. In the case of Cornish, that is exactly what they will enter. Nor are they likely to add a separate category template to place the song in the appropriate sub category, e.g. Category:Language/Celtic/Cornish. As such this problem will simply keep recurring .
Butttt...if we format the sub categories like I have done on that page, simply by placing not the actual language, but the sub category itself, e.g. Category:Language/Cornish into the Category:Language/Celtic it will get correctly categorised!! I just need to know if you envisage this presenting any problems.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 09:42, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Ahhhhhh, sorry, the quarter just dropped (is that an expression in English?). Looks like a very neat solution. It does mean we have to re-categorize a lot of pages (like Language/Fantasy/Elvish). The alternative is that we make a template (of course I immediately have Template:Language in mind) that will take one or more language codes and convert them to categories (e.g. en => English, gae => Celtic/Gaelic, etc).
I do like your suggestion. But do you want to do it like that for all categories (e.g. convert Category:Language/English/Old English back to Category:Language/Old English? Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 10:07, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes. I'll take care of it. In fact I'm glad to, because I can see this will actually solve the problem once and for all with the least disruption to our users, etc. I am also grateful for all the work you put into this initially in finding out the correct languages. Ok most of them I would've known, but some I would have had to research. As such this has helped because it has saved me a lot of time. Talking of time, I don't think I'm going to keep reporting what I've done and what I haven't off the list. It seems a little pointless. I'm just going to get on with it. But I thought it could still be useful to keep the list you prepared for future reference. Although I don't know for what exactly, maybe that redundant template could still come in useful somehow.  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 13:41, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
P.S. We don't have quarters over here, we have pennies http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/msn60/smile009.gif

Can someone please tell me... Edit

how to redirect a category please. I know it is possible because I saw it a few days ago. However I know it's slightly different to what we usually do. Many thanks!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 21:37, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

I think what you must've seen was that redirecting categories doesn't exactly work. They end becoming what's called a soft redirect, that is, you go to the page and you see the arrow and new page number but are not automatically taken there. Maybe there's something I've never heard of, but I don't think it can be done prettily. --Aquatiki - T - E 01:24, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Thank you Aqua and yes you are right of course [1] but it's the best I can do atm. It would probably work if I could make a manual link to include the &redirect=no bit..but alas it isn't having none of that :( So if you do happen to find a prettier way, please let me know!  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 06:57, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Well...I had a bit more success than the other guy at least ;) [2]  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 08:35, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Progress Edit

Wow, you are really making good progress here. Didn't check for a couple of days and the list is empty. Very nice!. Mischko Talkicon EsperanzaIcon 04:20, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Alphabetizing Edit

Just as 6 times 9 did with Category:Language/Multilingual I have filled out the names of each of the languages in the categories so that they will self-alphabetize. In many cases only the first letter had been put "Category:Language|U" for "Category:Language|Urdu" which put that language at the top of the letter. If more than one language was like that they seemed to take turns being at the top.

While I was at it I took care of most if not all of the songs with erroneous language identifiers, Español instead of Spanish for instance. It is one of those things that someone should do now and again and now it was I.

JimCubb 01:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

There is a techno-fancy way to do this. When you put a page (or a category) in another category and you don't want it to be listed by its namespace, but its pagename type: [[Category:Category Name|{{PAGENAME}}]]. --Aquatiki - T - E 16:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Did this work Aqua? Only I saw you had amended this back to Spanish after saying this. If it doesn't work me thinks it would be a good idea to add a note here so others don't do this..yes? (Don't know if this is in any way connected to Echo's observation below..) ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 12:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah ... I was gonna try to figure out why this wasn't working as expected and get back to you guys. --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 16:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Spanish Edit

Why doesn't Spanish show on this Category? Why is it under L? ∃cho⚡ierr∀ () 04:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC) They all moved to United Kingdom? ;)

Former Yugoslavian Languages? Edit

This Category has three sub-categories, Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian. Macedonian, Montenegrin and Slovenian have their own categories. Is this category needed?

If this category is needed then a category for Languages of the Former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics should also be formed, should it not? After that it is only a short step to Languages of the British Isles.

JimCubb 01:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Good point, JC. I've eliminated it. 'No point in have a category of categories merely for socio-historic reasons! --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 13:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I wonder if someone would agree. How about Celtic and Gaelic? Should they be combined or eliminated? I was almost convinced that Irish was not a language category after I did not find it in Celtic and did not notice that Gaelic was a category until about 15 minutes ago.

JimCubb 21:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Also done. I'm too busy with real life things right at the moment, but Constructed Languages should go too. For any one else looking in on this conversation: it's OK to make a group for minor languages, but that should not eliminate them from the Category:Language. How would any of us like it if we look for English language songs and had to look under Germanic Languages? --Åqüã†ìкí ƒΔΣ 23:05, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Green check Done  ♫Яєdxx Actions Words 14:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
These sub-categories have all now been amended so that they don't only show under the category to which they relate, but also in the top level category too, i.e. Category:Language.

alphabetical order Edit

Maybe it seems pedantic, but I would search under "G" for German languages like:

  • Language/Austrian German
  • Language/Austro-Bavarian (I don't think, there exists an combined Austrian/Bavarian dialect)
  • Language/Bavarian German
  • Language/Bernese German
  • Language/Bohemian German
  • Language/Kölsch (should be named >Kölsch German<)
  • Language/Low German
  • Language/Swiss German
  • Language/Middle High German
  • Language/Old High German

I think, they should also be subcategories of German

This also counts for other sublanguages like:

  • Language/Middle Italian
  • Language/Middle Irish
  • Language/Middle English
  • Language/Old English
  • Language/Old French
  • Language/Old Icelandic
  • Language/Galician-Portuguese
  • Language/Brazilian Portuguese

And what is the difference between:

  • Language/Celtic-Gaelic
  • Language/Gaelic

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Otto67at (talkcontribs). 19:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

These have now been amended. See Category:Language/German for an example.  Яєdxx Actions Words 23:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Instrumentals / No Language Edit

Is there already a category for this content? Or should I/someone make one? That's all, thanks --Mylyricuser 04:45, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

If you use the {{Instrumental}} template, the page will be added to Category:Instrumental and the language parameter in SongFooter will be ignored. — 6×9 (Talk) 04:53, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Yes, however let's look at example one or example two.
Example one is an instrumental, however it still appears in the Songs Needing Language Identification section.
Example two does not have enough words to be identified as a language so is also in this category.--Mylyricuser 05:10, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
#1 is sorted now, that was just a temporary bug. #2 doesn't appear to have any words ("ladida" isn't really a word) and should use the instrumental template as well. (See the short description at the top of Category:Instrumental… which was probably nicked from the Wikipedia article.) — 6×9 (Talk) 08:40, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, however many instrumentals are still showing in Category:Songs Needing Language Identification, (random example).--Mylyricuser 11:20, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Categories can take a while to update; if the pages don't go away by themselves, we can get a bot to "purge" them. (Might do that anyway, to be on the safe side…) — 6×9 (Talk) 12:18, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Quechua Edit

Can someone add Quechua to the language category? Planetarypuppy (talk) 20:57, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

Category:Language/Quechua --ES (talk) 21:00, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
thank you ^^ Planetarypuppy (talk) 21:03, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
Though it doesn't show on Category:Language, another admin will take care of that soon enough! --ES (talk) 21:11, October 28, 2015 (UTC) siiiiiix!!
It shows up under L. I would fix this myself if I could figure out how. sorry ;;; Planetarypuppy (talk) 21:24, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

done, --Senvaikis (talk) 21:55, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

mercifully! --ES (talk) 23:56, October 28, 2015 (UTC)