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Is it possible to list Artists that begin with Numbers as well? Don't know how to do it ;) --Aylorion 07:47, 24 May 2007 (EDT)


Category:Artists says "This category breaks down all of the artists into subcategories based on the first letter of their name." Does this mean all artists should be listed in an Artists subcategory (such as Category:Artists A) and NOT category:Artists ? (example: Artefact is in both Category:Artists A and Category:Artists) --EarthFurst 16:24, 20 December 2006 (EST)

Example: Category:Artists&from=D goes from "D-A-D" to "Dimension F3H". While Category:Artists D goes from "D Cru" to "Dario G". I'm concerned that maintaining both Artist category sytems is too onerous for lyricwiki volunteers. --EarthFurst 03:40, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Well, the whole idea is that the layout is provided by a set of default templates, mainly Template:Artist, Template:Album and Template:Song (and some corresponding Footer templates); these templates should be used on every page. Then it's no trouble at all maintaining both categories, since the Artist template adds the page to both Category:Artists as well as :Category:Artists fLetter, where fLetter is a parameter given to the template. --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 05:15, 2 January 2007 (EST)
Not totally accurated, the Artist template adds the article to the Artist category if no fLetter parameter is given. The correct way to act is to take off the Category:Artists_X line and use the |fLetter=X parameter in the artist template. --Unaiaia (talk) 06:37, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Clear things up Edit

Well i personally find it very confusing, this whole layout ! When i tried to find Noir Desir through the list of artist (the first one, "alphabetically sorted"), i couldn't find it, but when i used the list from Subcategories and then A then Artists N, i found it there. Why not simply use the second one ? I don't understand this scheme... — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Holytrousers (talkcontribs).


are the bands added automatically? Edit

'couse there are lots of them that are not added into the list... :( --kblcuk 15:13, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

Actually no artists should be in Category:Artists at all, it's just a container category for the subcats indexed by starting letter. Artists are automatically added to the appropriate category by use of the {{Artist}} template. If you see an artist missing here, the template was probably not or wrongly used, please be bold and fix it. --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 04:56, 15 August 2007 (EDT)

Uh-uh. Thanks, I'll check that. (: --kblcuk 15:11, 15 August 2007 (EDT)

why is this so difficult now Edit

who ever changed the layout did a horrible job you can't find anything with out going through a bunch of unnecessary steps. i won't be using this site again — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.184.74.12 (talkcontribs).

I'd ask you to elaborate, but with such a dramatic exit....    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:05, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Pretty Confused Edit

I'm pretty confused by the subcategory navigation in both the Artist and Album categories. I think there's also an interaction between minor (and inevitable) errors and the design of the navigation that makes understanding the navigation much harder than one might expect. If the navigation were different, small errors wouldn't be as confusing.

Navigation Issues Edit

  • Navigation elements and destinations should be named the same. For example, when you click "Main Page" in the LyricWiki left-hand navigation box, the first thing you see at the top of the destination page is "Main Page." Excellent! Compare what happens when you click "Artists" on the Main Page: you go to a page titled "Category: Artists." This is confusing; are we on the correct page?
  • Why is it that when one clicks "E" in the navigation row at the top of that page, one goes to a page titled "Category - Artists"? Shouldn't such pages be titled "Artists by first name: E" (or something similar?) (http://lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Artists&from=E)
  • It's implicit that the top navigation row (Top|A B C ... Z) maps to the Subcategories. In fact, this is not the case and it's confusing.
  • I'm not really sure what will happen when I click a letter in the top navigation row. For example, go to http://lyricwiki.org/Category:Artists_H then click "D". What's happening? I really don't know. Go back to http://lyricwiki.org/Category:Artists_H then click "K". The resulting page (http://www.lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Artists_H&from=K) really makes no sense to me. What is being show here?
  • It's not obvious where one will wind up when one clicks "Top." For example, sometimes when one clicks "Top" one returns to http://lyricwiki.org/Category:Artists (which is expected.) However, if one starts off clicking "Artists K" then clicking "E" in the top navigation, then clicking "Top" one is returned to "Artists K." While this makes some sense if you think about it, it's pretty disorienting and unexpected because the word "Top" seems to be modal without providing any indication of its current state (e.g., "Top of Category," "Top of Subcategory," "Top of Artists: K," "Top: K," "Top," etc.)
  • I would argue that the navigation bar Top|0-9 A B C ...Z should replace the Subcategories area on the main Artists category page. This would provide a consistent navigation tool on each page.
  • Another option might be a breadcrumb trail. E.g., Main Page > Artists > Alphabetically by "K". Not sure if this wiki supports breadcrumb trails.
  • At any rate, the Subcategories area of the Category:Artists page shouldn't have continuation indicators (e.g., "A cont.") over each column.
  • When paging through the subcategories (next/previous 200), only the first column in which a letter appears should be headed by that letter alone. For example, "K" should appear as a column heading only on this page: http://lyricwiki.org/Category:Artists_K. All other columns with "K" artists should have "K cont." as the heading. It's really confusing when you see "K" by itself anywhere other than on that very first page. It makes you wonder if you accidentally went back to the first page and, if so, what happened to a whole bunch of artists.
  • On http://lyricwiki.org/Category:Artists, the navigation elements (previous 200) (next 200) appear above the Subcategories area. This seems to imply that clicking (next 200) will take one to another 200 subcategories. Assuming the Subcategories area is retained as part of the nav design, I would recommend placing the previous/next navigation elements immediately above Articles in Category "Artists" and setting off the Subcategories area by some means (such as a colored background for Subcategories, a table, a box of some sort, or a horizontal rule.

Examples of Errors Leading to Confusion Edit

Here are just a few things I tripped over when trying figure out how to navigate the Artists category:

  • The asterisk (*) at the top of the list of subcategories in the Subcategories area is confusing. One thinks it must be some kind of subcategory when (I assume?!) it's just a bit of cruft from someplace.
  • Matt Kresling is in the "K" subcategory. Shouldn't he be in "M?" (http://lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Artists_K&from=Kris+Kristofferson)
  • The first page of the "K" section leads off with "D" because there are some bands with "Die" in their names plus Dustin Kensrue is in the wrong subcategory.

These are obviously minor errors, but I can't emphasize enough how these glitches compounded the problems I had trying to understand how to navigate the Artists (and Albums) categories. --Kkashani 17:03, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

First of all, let me say Thank you! for the time and effort that it took for you to explain the problem. It is quite helpful when issues such as this are described in such a thorough way so that it can actually be discussed.
I believe many of the errors that you cite stem from the fact that there really shouldn't be ANY artists listed under Category:Artists, and that the "0-9 A B C..." menus are actually meant to eventually go away. The problem comes from pages that do not have the fLetter component designated, whether by the Artist template, the Album template, or the SongFooter template. This means that the page is automatically placed in the generic Category:Artist, Category:Album or Category:Song listings. Because these generic lists are so large, the "0-9 A B C..." menu is there to help navigate through that list. Some pages are on the generic listing because they were created before the fLetter categories were instituted. Some are because contributors leave out that information when the page is created or edited. Ideally there shouldn't be any listed generically, only under subcategories, making navigation more transparent and likely alleviating much of the confusion that you mention. It would be great for all if contributors such as yourself would help us by adding fLetter information to as many pages as possible.
I am sorry that these errors cause you frustration and confusion. With a publically edited database, these input and formatting errors are bound to creep in and require action and improvement by a wide range of contributors. This site is only what each of us make it. There may be a half-dozen or so regularly active admins, but the sheer numbers of entries each day makes proofing each of them impossible. I, for instance, spend much of my time correcting pagename capitalization errors and combating vandals and spammers. Many of the regular contributors have discovered a niche in which they can help improve the site. Clearing out the generic Artist, Album, and Song categories is a niche that needs to be filled and a problem that should, indeed, be addressed.
It is quite possible that a bot could be used to help clean up some of this, (it would certainly make things a bit easier for us humans), but as I am not a bot programmer I could not say so with certainty. A question for the more technically-minded admins to address.
Other problems likely have to do with templates that need some improvements, such as the breadcrumb trail, that you mentioned. The * business on the subcategories list is a bit unusual, and I think stems from a template that isn't sure what to do with those, but I'm not sure. Perhaps one of the others that have a great deal more experience with template creation and editing may be able to help with some of those issues.
Matt Kresling should, indeed, be under M, as should the "The" titles also listed on that page. This comes from editors who are unsure of the fLetter policy stated in the help pages. Under some categorization systems, individuals are listed by their last name. LyricWiki just does it straight on, using the left-most letter of all, whether a group, individual, etc.
Once again, thank you for helping bring these issues to light. Hopefully we can work on improving these.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   21:55, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Here I am a year later. I stumbled across the Arists Category when I wnet to the Artist of some songs in SNLI (a sub-category of Language with >350,000 songs). Over there navigation between letters is a one-step process, click on the letter desired at the top of every screen. Here navigative from letter to letter is a two-step process, click on the category at the bottom of the page to get to this page then click on the sub-category of the letter you want. Everything has to go through this page. (Something like a flight from London to Rome must go through New York City because that is the hub.)

The nice "menu" at the top of each page of each of the sub-categories is completely worthless. If I am in Sub-Category L there had better be no Artist with fLetter equal to B in that Sub-Category. There may be but they do not belong there and they will not be there by the end of the week.

I will go through all the Sub-Categories to fix the miscoded artists as soon as I finish doing what I can to the Artists on this page.

JimCubb 02:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I have done some of what had to be done and someone else did letters A through D. It is still extremely difficult to use.

JimCubb 06:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

"C" Artists missing through some navigation Edit

From the Artists page, if you navigate to "C" via a subcategory ( http://lyricwiki.org/Category:Artists_C ), the "C" artists show up. But if you click on "C" from the navigation list across the top of the Artists page ( http://lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Artists&from=C ), it skips right to "D," because there are no "C" artists listed.

This is because the two are actually separate category divisions. The subcategories list the artists that have had the fLetter component in the Artist template included. So any that have fLetter=C will be listed under the Category:Artists C subcategory. The 0-9 A B C...etc. navigator allows one to navigate through those artists that haven't had the fLetter included. All pages should actually include the fLetter, and eventually, (hopefully) the list of Artists not in a subcategory will some day be very short and the extra navigator removed. From what I see, the list has been mostly cleared up to the Ds, except for a few strange items. If you'd like to help clear some of those items, that would be great! It isn't very glamorous work, but certainly helpful!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   14:51, 11 November 2007 (EST)

Neat and Clean Edit

With a little bit of slogging by me and immense help from EchoSierra's bot this entire Category is clean, squeaky clean. All artists have the correct fLetter applied if they were entered correctly. If someone put in songs by Richard Penniman and created a page for him with fLetter R, it will be where it is technically supposed to be but no where near Little Richard.

There are some exceptions. There are some Templates and Sandboxes that have been created by Admins that are in the lists. I don't think they should be here but I am not an admin, merely a cumudgeonly drudge. I wouold not dream of touching an Admin's junk work product. Admins are asked to search through the various sub-categories and cleanup after themselves.

I will try to remember to go through all the sub-categories every fortnight or so to keep things clean.

Happy Editing!

JimCubb 01:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)