…to the Community Forum's talk page! This is the place to talk about the site with other editors, make plans for future changes, discuss problems and discover solutions.

One of our regular editors from down under, Humbug, has recently requested a "Current Projects" page to make it easier to keep up with what's going on, because as he says:

"Basically, if you want to keep up with what's going on it involves reading a bunch of Mod's talk pages, this page, etc. and there's so much there that it takes a while to get your head around it and find out what changes the community are working on at the time." After being absent from the site myself a lot in recent weeks and having one of the longest, if not the longest watchlists on the site, I can only but agree. So here goes Humbug, this one's for you and a little bit for me…!

Oh and have fun, keep a cool head in discussions, and remember to always sign your posts!  ♫_♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪ ^Actions _Words 11:34, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

• Topics are in relative chronological order, top to bottom, so please add your post at the bottom of the page.
• For questions about editing, see the Help Pages. If you still can't find what you're looking for, post your question at the Help Desk.

• Current projects with links to discussions: [edit]

• Further discussions can be found by following the links on the Long Term Projects page.

Our confusing system of help pages Edit

Hi there, I don't know if I'm the only one, but with LyricWiki being such a complex project with many specialities it's a logical consequence that we have to have a lot of help pages. But: they are all somewhat "incomplete" and I feel like they are scattered across the whole project and it's hard to find them all. So I dream about a new project for me, as all mass edit tasks I could perform with Greasemonkey currently seem to be done for me so far: donating LyricWiki a new help-page system, with more structure and unified appearance. This does not mean I will like erase everything we have and then rewrite all the help pages completely. I just thought about gathering all the help pages together and then order them into a more intuitive way.

At the moment, we have so many different pages, all about some of the help topics, but none of them gathers them all:

• Help:Contents + its subpages - General overview about editing, also some very specific information; partially overlapping with some template documentations
• Help:Advanced - A forgotten page, not up to date (basically created 3 years ago ); very specific, much overlapping with other non-helppages (which I can't find atm)
• Help:FAQ - Just very few very specific questions, could be enhanced by more periodical updates
• LyricWiki:Help Desk - Should be the place where people ask about editing
• LyricWiki:Site support - Sounds like a helppage, but it's intended to contain how to support the site. Yet, there is a complete Help:Contents... again? Weird!
• LyricWiki:Helpcenter - My approach of creating a base for all helppages; just a demonstration, not working the desired way, not as effective as I hoped to, is it? What do you think about the method of "click-the-fitting"?
• LyricWiki talk:Community Portal - Usually just for feedback, but a wild mixture of feedback, talk and questions
• LyricWiki:User preferences help - Umm, yeah, currently a spam page, but maybe needed (?)
• LyricWiki:Job Exchange - Help with edits you can't do alone (works great lately, more than 30 requests in the last month, trend (hopefully) upwards, will be enhanced and continued, I think? )
• Place to report bugs - missing so far
• Many questions on (admin) talkpages and the corresponding archives, which is nothing bad, but some of them might be worth to be gathered together into the help
• Template documentations - not always present as subpage (or none doc at all), not unified, some badly connected to the concerning helppages Templates names and usage isn't always intuitive as well (Cover + Covered/Cover2), but that's another point
• Category:Help - Pretty useless at the moment, seriously. Please compare description to content.

If you agree to my plan to recreate a more unified and less splitted/scattered/confusing help system, I would start

1. to unify template doc's first. What do you think about the way like I thought off for {{SongHeader}} (the "better" {{Song}} template ) to link the attributes to the sections?
2. to rebuild Help:Contents' subpages, likely with the use of the installed extension "TabView", so we need one page for "Formatting" and then have tabs for Artist/Album/Song etc, so we needn't put hundreds of links down into the lowest level of subpages.
3. find (or even better create) some example pages as reference for how pages should look like (we could use my test-artist "Big The Boss" and his made-up discography).
4. gather/sort information from other help- and talkpages and sort them into the FAQ or the Help where sensible.
5. improve internal system of categories collecting helppages.

Are you in? - Chris 00:35, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Proposal: make this a REAL lyrics website. Edit

Ladies and Gentlemen of The Interwebz, there are thousands of Lyrics websites over there; and this is not much better than them. I have a proposal to make this a Lyrics Wiki to Rule Them All. Wanna know?

Annotations

Most musicians talk about important stuff in their lyrics. Stuff that not everybody knows. The entry for Welcome to the Jungle could add information about Las Vegas. Yellow Submarine could tell you something about opium in India. Black_Sabbath:Paranoid is ranked as Gold Star. It could tell you that the song was composed in 20 minutes because the album was considered too anti-war by the producer. That kind of stuff would add value to the site. For example, Compare Iron_Maiden:The_Trooper with this Iron Maiden web. They give you 4 paragraphs of history about the Crimean War and a poem by Lord Tennyson. That makes you understand the lyrics' full meaning. I know that most american music that reaches my country is "teenagers in love" with flat simple lyrics; but surely there must be a few good songwriters left over there; so this benefits everybody.

It would make a huge difference.

Regards, Anonymous 186.109.12.201 15:15, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, first about Iron Maiden: you are comparing us (a collection of 1.1 million songs by more than 40,000 different artists) to a webpage specialised on Iron Maiden. That is like comparing the wikipedia article about planes to Boeing's archives of all their blueprints! Of course we do not have that density of information. How could we?

"It could tell you that the song was composed in 20 minutes because the album was considered too anti-war by the producer."

That's interesting, though I don't know what the one has to do with the other, and I also wonder where you get such information. Furthermore I doubt this information helps to understand the song's meaning.

Yet we do accept if not encourage to provide additional information whenever we have it, for example here or even a complete page here. I cannot remember any case where we had ever deleted relevant additional information on purpose. Therefore feel free to add the annotations section to every song you like!

Regards, Chris 16:04, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Chris... if you're passionate about additional info or annotations, get to it :) Here are a couple more examples of pages that have decent additional info:

• Tool:Lateralus/Fibonacci
• The Clarks:Born Too Late

Please jump right in and start sprucing up pages you'd like to, and as you add more Additional Info, it might start a trend :)

Thanks,

-Sean Colombo 18:41, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I've signed up. I'll start with some international bands --Abaldrich 01:09, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. - Chris 17:45, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

With regard to annotations, I think there should be a difference between these lyric pages and the Wikipedia song pages that they're linked to. I wouldn't be so interested in production notes of the songs here so much as lyrical meaning. Of course, I'd have to also suggest that these annotations have some reference requirement. Sounds fun, but a lot of work. Redrkr 00:54, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Title 'All Start Capitals' ?

I got a complaint wanting to name an album as on the cover picture Boudewijn De Groot:Voor de Overlevenden (1966) as is usual in Dutch.

Now I changed it to the 'wrong' "De". No big deal, but unusual and different from the cover picture... ClubFavolosa 23:02, March 8, 2011 (UTC)

Insensitivity! (case insensitivity that is) Edit

Because we use MediaWiki, we have case-sensitive titles. This leads us to tons of redirects and very specific naming conventions. However, this also makes it unnecessarily hard for people to search our site (even using the API or the LyricWiki Android App).

My question is this: do we have any real need to allow two pages with different capitalization to exist? If not, we could usher in a new age of freedom on LyricWiki :P ... all capitalization could be how it is in the original song/album/artist and we could just make the site prevent duplicate names that vary only by capitalization.

We'd have to write an extension to enforce this, but it could be done and we could probably merge all of the existing conflicts in one night (assuming there aren't any VALID reasons to have two pages differ only in case).

This strikes me as being worth it even if an artist were to release the same song w/different capitalization, it's probably worth having a disambiguation page for that song rather than to make our whole system case-sensitive.

Can anyone think of a reason NOT to do this? Any thoughts in favor of it?

Thanks!
-Sean Colombo 22:39, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Does the system not only prevent pages from being created but also redirect differently capitalized pageviews to the one page?

Situation

• "THiS iS a WeiRDLY CaPiTaLiZeD PaGe" is created
• "This is a Weirdly Capitalized Page" is blocked
• "This is a Weirdly Capitalized Page" is called

Does it silently lead the user to the existing "THiS..." page then? Otherwise songs could never be found again... - Chris 00:11, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Good eye ;) ...yeah, we could definitely do auto-redirects in the same general way we do "Implied Redirects" now. In addition even though "This is a Weirdly Capitalized Page" is blocked from creation, you could "move" (rename) the old page TO be that page if desired. Both of those cases should def. be covered.

It's kinda frightening that this seems like such a good idea... we might actually have to do it! Oh nos! ;D

-Sean Colombo 01:38, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Won't moving to a differently capitalised page cause trouble? Because we'd end up with two pages, only one of which would be allowed. So the system would have to detect whether only caps are changed, and only in that case not leave a redirect behind.

But that would also break any links to the original page… unless links were made case-insensitive as well, so for example [[aBbA]] would link to ABBA without an explicit redirect.

Other than that, I see no major problem, and it would simplify a lot of things. — 6×9 (Talk) 08:45, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

"we could definitely do auto-redirects in the same general way we do "Implied Redirects" now."

I don't know if I'm forgetting about something, but how shall this be performed? Is there a way to perform ci database searches? If not, the system would have to cover all possibilities, which is approx. "2^length" possibilities for each title: abba, abbA, abBa, abBA, aBba, aBbA, aBBa, aBBA, Abba, AbbA, AbBa, AbBA, ABba, ABbA, ABBa, ABBA

You cannot perform 16 searches for "Abba", until you finally find "ABBA". And this is only 4 letters long. Imagine a search ‎on "Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society:Sing Praises To Jehovah (1994)" - this is 50 alpha-chars = ~ 1 quadrillion possibilities... - Chris 15:42, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

I would most likely be accomplishing this stuff by adding another column to the "page" table which has a case-folded version of the title. This would make moving, preventing duplicates, and auto-redirecting all pretty straightforward.

- Sean (can't get tildes to work in this box on my mobile, lol) Sean Colombo 20:15, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Well, despite the fact that I generaly am agains such stuff and I require capitalisation everywhere, in this situation i think it complicates things more then helps. So I do support this proposal. I just hope it won't mean that we drop the naming rules completly (only some will become suggestions and not rules maybe). Either to avoid complete capitalisation anarchy and also to give guide in situations when the correct capitalisation isn't known (e.g. cd cover with all names in upercase or some such).Nyoxi 20:29, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

It looks like it's worth taking a shot at this. I've started a technical todo list here: User:Sean_Colombo/Case_Insensitivity. Please let me know if I've missed an obvious case that we should be covering.
Thanks!
-Sean Colombo 00:17, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yay! A bunch of the most popular banned songs are coming back! Edit

It appears that Gracenote got licensing for a bunch of popular artists that had previously been on the takedown list such as Queen, Aerosmith, and Michael Jackson.

GracenoteBot is churning away, adding back what he can. If there are pages that have been modified since they were added to the takedown list, he often can't automatically revert so he adds them to Category:Restorable_Pages_Needing_Attention which will probably be growing a decent amount over the next day or so and might need some extra love.

I'm pretty pumped to have these back :D it's like Christmas in March!
-Sean Colombo 03:06, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Quick note: I ran a bunch of update files and then ended up being run more in parallel than in order. This caused some songs to go off the takedown list, then back on and vice-versa. Basically, GracenoteBot is going to have to start over from yesterday so he may be making some confusing edits. Long-story short: he may appear confused, but everything that happens from right now going forward should be correct.

Sorry for the confusion!

-Sean Colombo 03:23, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for good news, Sean! So, the answer to my question is: "restorable"? --Senvaikis ^(talk) 14:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

@ all (not everyone can be that firm in all the terms as we are): when GNB took down the pages it protected them. Now, that they are to be back, most pages will not have been changed since the takedown, but some might. In order to not destroy any changes, GNB will not revert its changes, because that'd revert all changes made inbetween, too. Therefore, the page is put into the "Restorable Pages Needing Attention" category.

Senv: from what I got, I think yes . Let's see what Sean's about to tell us.

Sean: Yay, MJ is back! - Chris 17:41, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@Chris: seems 6 has a different opinion... --Senvaikis ^(talk) 18:31, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Responded to Senv on GNBot page.

LWChris: If we also get Tool and APC back, I think I can die happy ;)

-Sean Colombo 18:22, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Some stats about current situation in RPNA:

87 songs are still protected (though containing {{gn_restore}}). Lwt didn't touch them for a while. Remaining 133 lyrics could be restored to pre-gn state, but 127 of them have accented chars, thus simple restoring is hook-aborted by spam-filter. So, Lwt did all what it could atm - restored remaining six unprotected & unhooked songs ;). Actually Lwt would be able to restore all these songs lyrics to other, taken from GN, value. But I'm not sure about legitimacy of such "restoring".

Any thoughts? --Senvaikis ^(talk) 11:00, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Those protected pages with restore template which I checked were re-protected, but gn_restore wasn't removed. So I'd guess the way to handle these would be to remove said template. Correct, Sean?

Accented pages: overwriting all of these with GN versions wouldn't be a good idea, because not all GN pages have correct accents – some have "flattened" lyrics with ascii characters only. But if lwt can check for presence of non-ascii and only overwrite in such a case, that should be fine. — 6×9 (Talk) 14:36, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

...and you are sure - any problems with GN:EULA? --Senvaikis ^(talk) 16:05, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, copying any amount of lyrics from the GN namespace anywhere else on LW should be fine, since it's not "copy[ing ...] to any third party". Didn't GNB originally intend to create main NS pages for any added GN page anyway? — 6×9 (Talk) 18:10, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Album of the Week Edit

Why has the same AOTW been on the front page for ages although there are other nominations in the queue?--91.49 22:28, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Because the user who cared about the nominations left LyricWiki and we haven't found someone yet who is willing to do this job weekly. - Chris 22:28, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Then wouldn't it be better to at least remove the current AOTW from the front page until someone comes along who takes care of things again? It looks rather stupid IMHO if the same AOTW appears there forever.--91.49 22:49, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Was my proposal, too. I'll ask again to remove it. - Chris 20:30, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

I'm taking care of AOTW currently. If you want to nominate an album, go ahead. :) - hard4me 23:37, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Add more than one artist to a song Edit

Hi,

I would like to know how I can add more than one artist to a song. I can't find the answer in the FAQ. For example at this song: Duck Dich (Juice Exclusive). They are four single artists, but I can't name one by one in the description. So how can I do that? - (Optikus 17:17, April 1, 2011 (UTC))

The way you made it is correct. Now create a page for the combined artist, put the song into the Other songs section and put the Collaboration template on it. And that's basically how it's done, as far as I know. - Chris 23:07, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, thank you. But that is not really the thing I meant. I meant something at that code: {Song|Name Of Artist|star=Colour}}. So that you can read: "This song is performed by Jonesmann, Blaze, Criz & Haftbefehl. Is there an opportunity to do that? - Optikus 11:48, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

This is, as you stated correctly, impossible, because the template has nothing like artist2 parameter or so. See this song how it's done. It's the easiest way to provide a link to both artists. - Chris 12:24, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ok thank you. So I will do it that way. By the way, will the template be changed, so that it will be possible to add a second or more artists? - Optikus 15:03, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

No I don't think so, because otherwise the code will get very complex. Single links but all together for Album, ARTIST keyword, SongFooter etc. - that's too complex compared to the number of pages that system would be useful for. - Chris 18:10, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I understand. Thank you. - Optikus 18:38, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

You can use the "featured artist" parameters, |fa=Second Artist| fa2=Third Artist parameters to {{Song}} to append "and features Second Artist and Third Artist". You still have to pick one artist to "own" the song. I guess the other artists could have redirects to it. This quickly devolves into "How can I show all songs on which "Third Artist" performs?, to which the one true best answer is the Semantic MediaWiki extension. -- Skierpage 20:55, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't think so. I have used the featured artist parameter very often here. But sometimes you can't use it because nobody featured the other. It is simply a collaboration as Chris said it. So I have done it that way. Nevertheless, I thank you for answering. - Optikus 12:58, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

To Skierpage: The problem with SMW is that it is computationally intensive and its database operations produce a lot of load to the servers. Even for smaller wikis than LW the load exceeds the performance limit of Wikia's servers to run fluent and without lags. The link-web of millions of pages is just too complex for SMW.

Anyway I don't see the necessity to use SMW when there is Special:WhatLinksHere. A search on Lil Wayne (you may need to filter the namespace and set the limit to 500) also throws OutKast:Hollywood Divorce as result #142 for example, which is a song where Lil Wayne occured as featured artist. - Chris 13:27, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

Don't dampen my idealism with practical issues 8-) I don't want to hijack this heading, but the key idea of SMW is to explain to the wiki "Why is the link Lil Wayne here?" and "Why is the value 3:42 here?". WhatLinksHere can't tell you. At least templates capture the information until computers become powerful enough. Cheers -- Skierpage 20:57, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

*giggles* Sorry, I tried really hard but I just can't keep that comment any longer: It's fine that the wiki knows why Lil Wayne's linked, but nobody else would ever make profit of it or even find it out here, because the servers would crash all the time with that amount of pages and data... eehhrrg, fail - Chris 02:41, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Try out Live Chat on LyricWiki? Edit

I've been working on the Live Chat system for Wikia for a while, and it's up and running on a few wikis now (mostly the ones that requested it. If you are logged in, there should be a button in the right-rail to join the chat on any of those wikis, such as Glee Wiki.

We have an IRC channel right now, but a very small minority of people have IRC or are willing to install it just for one room. I think it's worth a try to flick on Special:Chat for LyricWiki and see how it goes.

Does anyone see any problems with trying it out? I'll probably flick it on tomorrow (Monday) if there isn't a reason not to.

Thanks,
-Sean Colombo 23:33, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

LyricWiki Admin Log April 26 11 - The day before yesterday, BM informed us on a new engine the page got, hopefully attracting more people to sector Charlie Hotel Alpha Tango which lately had some problems due to underserving. The new engine isn't an externally developed model type but a derivative of the special page superclass. As recent maintanance work is managable cadett Chris had some time on his hands to perform a simple engine test on the new machine in the sector. But today, the engine room reserved for the new machine is still empty or not functionally attached to the rest of the page. The boardcomputer at the entrace throws an error 404 not found. Captain Sean was informed, we'll see if is able to activate the machine again by the end of this week with his ÜberHax keystrokes. We don't know what it'll lead to, but there's no turning back.

Chris 03:00, April 26, 2011 (UTC) with Star Trek

Chat engaged ;) look on the right rail for the entry-portal -Sean Colombo 07:20, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

New Sidebar Element Being Tested Edit

Hello,

I wanted to give you a heads-up about a new sidebar unit we are experimenting with on Wikia. We've been looking again at our Answers websites, and have just redesigned them to have a similar look to other wikis, and to make it easier to match the theme to a similar regular wiki.

Next we would like to point people toward a wiki’s corresponding answers site via a box on the right hand rail of the wiki, similar to the Recent Activity box.

This box is a bit like the the Answers widget we introduced last year, but is simpler and just shows a list of questions recently asked or answered on the corresponding answers site, much like one would expect to see on “Wiki Activity” if one were actually on the answers site. For this test, the box would only show to logged-out users.

We've chosen wikis with plenty of activity and an Answers wiki on the same subject - ut if we've chosen the wrong Answers Wiki to link to please let us know. If you are logged out, and see the “Recent Questions” box, feel free to give us your feedback! --daNASCAT (help forum | blog) 18:49, May 4, 2011 (UTC)

Remixes Edit

When it comes to remixes, there are no guidelines (at least that I could find) spelled out. The biggest issue is that I, as a contributor, do not know if each remix should always/never have its own page or if its difference from the original is a factor (and if so, how different a remix should be in order to have its own page). I've had conflicting answers to this question - Trainman says different remixes can have different pages even if lyrics are only slightly different, but Ssmodk says there should only be one page. Personally, I think (at least as a general rule), each version of a song should have its own page regardless of how similar it is to the original lyrically since iTunes/Amazon/Musicbrainz/whatever will typically recognize each version as a separate song and since it prevents people arguing over which set of lyrics belongs on the page. Is there a consensus on this? IAmTheClaw 10:47, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Another approach is to compare the different version's suitablility for the goal of LyricWiki: to provide lyrics to sing along the songs. Then a remix needs its own page as soon as it's becoming difficult to keep track where you are. For example, if there's one line at the end repeated once more because the fade out is slower, I'd not create a page for that. But just today I resurrected the Paul Oakenfold Remix of Elvis Presley's Rubberneckin' because the lyrics have a completely different layout and order. It's impossible to keep all that in mind. This is how I do it, but I can't tell what's the "wanted" rule. We'll have to ask Sean. - Chris 01:20, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

At least with the remixes I encounter in the industrial/EBM genre, remixes generally have a different order, but differ much more in the instrumental aspect than lyrically. It's also not uncommon to encounter a remix that has added lyrics (typically samples rather than actual vocals, though). There's even one I know of that changes the main lyrics from generated speech to actual vocals (and in a different language). And them there's the matter of original versions having different mixes by the same artists, with all of them having parenthetical notes (Suicide Commando is pretty notorious for this). IAmTheClaw 01:35, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I think, musicbrainz should link to work, not recording. Work is relatively new entity in musicbrainz, describing song composition that can have multiple recordings. Usually one work has one lyrics. Work can be associated with multiple recordings of the same song in different albums of artist, remixes and covers. --08:49, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

MusicBrainz "release-group" in AlbumFooter? Edit

If this sounds like something you're interested in, please join the discussion on MusicBrainz release-groups in LyricWiki Album footers.
Thanks! :)
-Sean Colombo 23:45, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I posted a new proposal in the discussion to allow linking only to release groups (and to mass-convert all existing release MBIDs). What do you think? TarkinTor 23:03, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

ÜberBot is gettin' down to biznass Edit

He's been getting antsy and wanting to make more stuff! He's starting another small batch, but as always there are lots of things that aren't perfect since he's a robot (he may be creating pages which are just variants of CORRECT titles that we already have, etc.), so if you have the time/inclination, please keep an eye on ÜberBot to help keep him coloring in the lines ;)
Thanks!
-Sean Colombo 04:52, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

• Just had a peek at his batch. Some characters, like the typographic apostrophe, seem to be garbled (like Elvis Presley:Your Love’s Been A Long Time Coming) --BryghtShadow ^talk _works 20:38, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Searching namespaces Edit

So I have a yen to redirect things that a bot can't catch. One typo I've noticed is the use of ` (that little key up on the left side of the average keyboard) instead of ' (over on the right). Is there any way to search for a page whose name contains that character? (Or any character/set of characters, really.) NYCScribbler 01:55, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Using accents or smart quotes instead of apostrophes is one of the most common "errors", besides to the special quotation marks. My AutoFix script fixes these: ’´`‘ to ' and „“”«» to ". However this applies to the lyrics, not to the page titles. You could use the API with list=allpages and filter the output with something like grep. Can you do this or shall I provide you with a formated list (tell me how you need it then)? - Chris 05:09, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Spam filter Edit

I've tried to create a page Eddie Constantine:Wenn Liebe auf der Welt regiert. Lyrics only: no external links, but it was blocked by the spam filter. What shall I do now? --eugrus 10:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Besides that due to our page naming conventions the page should be titled "Eddie Constantine:Wenn Liebe Auf Der Welt Regiert", exactly the same happened for me yesterday. It worked out for me on the second try, so I'd recommend to simply try adding the song again. - Chris 13:14, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

If trying to add the song again doesn't work, following the directions on the spam filter page -- which involve posting on a talk page elsewhere on Wikia -- will work, although you may have to wait a day or two. (I believe a Wikia administrator has to manually add an exception to the filter.) I've occasionally had this problem for pages with the word "best" in the title, which you may realize is not an uncommon word to find in album titles. Trainman 17:29, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

From experience I know that usually the problem isn't the content but some URL anywhere on the page (e. g. in advertisements) that is accidentially matching a regular expression in the blacklists. Given that AFAIK Wikia uses so-called ad-rotators that display different ads for every pageview it is mere chance whether the edit is accepted or blocked. - Chris 19:00, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

That is pretty ridiculous! Such capitalization of titles is a part of English orthography. Titles in languages other than English should not be forced to use the orthography of English. --eugrus 19:40, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

I think you're referring to the page naming conventions? Well, actually, they are not even English, because in English, titles would not have the words "The", "Of", "From", etc. written inicaps.

I guess you are not a programmer, so I can understand that this looks very "ridiculous" to you. But as a matter of fact, it is the only way to make sure that absolutely everyone in the world knows how the titles are written. We cannot suppose every developer to know that "Liebe" and "Welt" are nouns and therefore are capitalized. Furthermore it avoids duplicate content and discussions about how titles are written, and not only computers can quick-check whether we have certain content or not. - Chris 16:19, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Song Of The Day Edit

I nominated a song ages ago, as always with nicely written reasons for my nomination. It hasn't turned up yet. I guess with the new interface it's just too easy now to nominate a song. The problem is, that a lot of nominations contain poor reasoning as for why the song is nominated. Things like "I don't know why this song should not be SOTD". It's just a pity, because someone like me won't write another nomination under these circumstances. You know, at Wikipedia they have understood that it is important that what appears on the home page is of good quality. Just some food for thought.--91.49 22:21, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I do see your nomination in the queue, so don't worry, it'll show up eventually. You're right that we do have a fairly big queue -- we're a couple of months behind on songs that don't have a preferred date.

Recognizing that they do end up on the front page, we do reject songs with nomination reasons that are too short, or too incoherent, and we do edit nomination reasons for spelling/grammar/punctuation. However, since we want to be inclusive and allow a wide variety of songs, artists, and ideas, we don't really have a problem with nominations of the "I nominated this song because it's awesome" variety. Trainman 22:43, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

It's my particular concern to affirm that every nomination will be at least looked at. Furthermore I want to explain why there's still some of these ultra-short nominations that don't even get above the 50 char limit: in the time before the new interface was written, there was a chronical lack of nominations. Therefore some nominations made before the 50-char lower limit was introduced and that were at least suitable have been confirmed as such. Now, I don't want to reject nominations that were already marked suitable, because in my understanding of marking them suitable that is like a promise, and it'd be unfair to say "yes" and then reject it later just because others are better.

Now to why those still appear: Although we're really trying to, we're not absolutely pulling submissions in the order they were committed. The reason is that we try to mix those short-reasoned nominations with the detailed ones, to hold a certain quality level in average. This is why there are still many of those short ones. This will decrease by time. Since April, there have been over 700 nominations, of which at least 50% were good and suitable. I'm really sorry that this makes good nominations wait so long, but I promise that every nomination that's matching our criteria (not already SOTD, media ids and good reason) will finally be accepted and pulled to be SOTD. Please don't refrain from submitting new songs, it will get better by the time.

I wish there was a way to speed up, but as we're currently at an average of two or three new nominations per day we'd have to reject 50-66% of the incoming nominations, which is not what I want to do. I hope you understand. Greetings, Chris 01:04, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, meanwhile it's still that much songs, so I will remove the banner for now and see what that does to the rating. If that doesn't help, it's maybe time to raise the limit to 120 characters to find out who's really trying to make a good submission. Usual reasons should have no problem to beat that limit, especially if the nominations contain wiki markup like a link to an album or the genre. Write "a cool [[:Category:Gerne/Rock|rock]] song" instead of "a cool rock song" and you've got 25 characters more, and raised the quality of the nomination. Every suitable link is a good link. - Chris 22:21, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Gracenote takedown on songs without lyrics Edit

I am sorry if this was already asked. I tried looking and could not find anything on the subject.

On a few of the songs, they are nothing more than the "Instrumental" tag. However, the Gracenote lyric takedown was applied to these pages. If a song does not have lyrics, should it be subject to the Gracenote lyric takedown? M.A.X. 17:35, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Hi M.A.X.,

Gracenote takedowns are illogical from time to time, it's just like that (if I made a top 10 list of the most nonsensical takedown titles you'd probably be laughing till you cry. ). Yet there's nothing we can do about it, takedowns have to be applied and revoked as Gracenote specifies. But anyway, how do these pages look like? Does "Instrumental tag" mean they have the {{Instrumental}} template above the takedown note, could you link to an example? If the Instrumental template is visible, a takedown is maybe annoying but not really a loss, is it? - Chris 05:18, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

Chris,

The pages I noticed it the most on were the ones for Tool. Here is one page. The Instrumental template is not visible, only the Gracenote takedown template. If the page actually said "Instrumental", then had the Gracenote takedown template language, I would not really care, but as you can see, that is not the case. --M.A.X. 16:57, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, okay, thanks for the example! Well, I'll have to ask Sean whether edits like this one are intended. If not, I could try to explain though: the usual handling is that the lyrics are cropped to 10% of the original length. For very short lyrics, the remaining rest would be ridicolously short (like one word or just a few letters), so the lyrics are removed completely. My guess is that "{{Instrumental}}" is simply treated as if this was a very short lyrics content and is therefore fully removed. So if this really is an unhandled special case, then that behaviour will be changed in future updates and the {{Instrumental}} template will be restored for old takedowns. Thanks for bringing this to my/our attention. I'll post the answer here. - Chris 18:12, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

I still got no answer but I did not forget about this. - Chris 16:30, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Hiya,

I don't think we've ever discussed this explicitly with Gracenote, but {{Instrumental}} seems like meta-data and I don't think any song rights-owner could claim to have a copyright on the information of whether or not their song was instrumental? I'm not a lawyer, but for lack of better information, that's my best guess... that it should be okay to leave the {{Instrumental}} in there?

(Chris is right that it just happening now because the length of the template is so short that it's being treated as short lyrics).

-Sean Colombo 00:12, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Unofficial YouTube videosEdit

Hello,

Though I'm no big part of the Lyric Wiki community at all, I do a lot of edits to the pages of bands I like, for instance I just recently brought Arcade Fire up to gold status, and I'm now working on Bon Iver. My question is this:

I've found a lot of unofficial YouTube videos embedded into lyric pages. Sure enough I like the idea of having a music sample of the lyrics you're reading, but in many cases these are bootleg recordings of live concerts, often with poor quality, or in general illegally uploaded videos from for example copyrighted material from MySpace Unplugged or similar. I am all for having official videos and officially released unplugged sessions or so on a page, but I've been removing videos with bad quality and that I know for a fact isn't uploaded by the copyright holders.

What's the policy on this?

Cheers -=KAG=-^{My Pride} 17:38, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there's an official policy beyond the rule of thumb you seem to be using, that official videos are better than unofficial, and so on. I'd say it's fine to remove low-quality videos, especially live recordings with bad sound. As for copyright, that's really between YouTube and the copyright holders; the record companies seem to be pretty good about quickly having videos taken down if they are legitimate copyright violations, so we can probably assume that anything that's been up on YouTube for a while is okay.

Also note that you can add |audio as a parameter to the YouTube embedding template, and it will embed the video as an audio player only -- that's probably the best thing to do if a song's been uploaded to YouTube in the form of a homemade slideshow or something along those lines. (See the template page for more details.) Trainman 18:51, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

The xxEdit

Hello again

I'm trying to do some fixing on the lyrics for The xx, but there's a pretty big typo where the name here on lyric wiki is The Xx, with one capital X. Which is wrong. Wondering if someone could help me sort this out. Some redirect pages will need to be deleted, and I fear there'll be many double redirects if I just move the page on my own. Does anyone have a bot that can handle this rather tedious task for me?

-=KAG=-^{My Pride} 23:08, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Please look at our page naming policy before you do any further moving. Thanks! — 6×9 (Talk) 06:03, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

How about that. All right, never mind me (: -=KAG=-^{My Pride} 09:04, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

ASIN for songs? Edit

I wonder whether ASIN for the songs themself make sense actually. I would guess only singles would have an ASIN - or is the ASIN for the mp3 downloads for the songs the one to look for and put it into the page? I'm a bit puzzled about what to do in those cases and what to put...

Thanks in advance for any insight in how you do that! Rhonda D'Vine 18:54, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I've always filled in the MP3-ASIN, because from there you can get everywhere else really easily. - Chris 15:42, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, makes sense of course. Will go through my certed songs and add them for completion. :) Rhonda D'Vine 09:32, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Message Wall (wanna try it early?) Edit

The new message wall system is out on test wikis (it's a way to try to make talk pages easier to use). I'm digging it so far... if you guys check it out & we decide to give it a shot early, I can ask for them to turn it on for LyricWiki. See: Tough Pigs' wall on Muppet.
-Sean Colombo 18:59, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I like the general idea, but as always I don't like the way how it's done. A lot of a lot of a lot too much space consuming design. Nope, I don't like that. - Chris 16:25, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

I don't like it either. Additional: I like on the Talk-Pages that you can show through the indentation to which message you are replying. On the "Message Wall" the replys are all on the same level. On discussions it's going to get really fast confusing, because all answers are mixed up and you cannot see to which reply a new one is referenced. — Salandas (Talk) 00:04, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Song without Information blocking Gold status of Son Goku Edit

I am working to get Son Goku into gold status, and am almost complete with the task, there is only one song missing from their album Crashkurs. Though, there is this Other Song that I stumbled upon while looking for videos, An jedem Morgen.

YouTube: YouTube

What do you suggest to do? Given that the song hasn't been on any recording, and that the only reference is the video (I just found it on Thomas D's homepage too), I feel uncertain about ranking of the song (and thus of the whole artist).

Any opinion and welcome!! Rhonda D'Vine 09:40, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Free Music of the WeekEdit

Free Music of the Week has been done and over with. No one will ever start up that one again. It needs to be either replaced or removed. I think that Artist of the Month would be a better idea. - hard4me 00:09, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Featured PollEdit

I like the idea of a Featured Poll. However, the American Music Awards were a week or two ago and we already know that Taylor Swift won the Artist of the Year award. It needs to be updated. - hard4me 00:09, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

New main page look? Edit

Howdy. The content team has offered to help with our main page since it's been a while since we've given it a refresh. (Also we have some sections on the Main Page right now that we don't really update).

Anywho: I've bounced it back & forth with them a bit and here's what they've come up with so far: http://sixbitsnonethewiser.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Six_Bits_None_the_Wiser_Wiki

Notes:

• When it's done the links will go to LyricWiki pages, not to Billboard/iTunes pages.
• They think it'd be cool if we ported our menus to use the new Wikia nav (those blue menus)... I don't remember if that's going to be mandatory eventually or not.

Thoughts?
-Sean Colombo 18:00, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not really pro an update (I think I'm one of the few admins who really visits the mainpage quite often). Reasons why I'm against a change:

1. The current system is implemented in a way we can easily translate it. The "new" design does not look like that'd also apply for it.
2. Except for the Free Music of the Week, all sections are updated all the time. And for FMotW there was the idea of having it replaced with "Artist of the Month".
3. I love the current design for its straight and simple layout.
4. Opposed to that I don't like that design proposal. (Warning: You know that if it comes to design questions, I'm not the one to show mercy in my words.) I'll say straightforward that the dark box shadows make the boxes look clunky; as webdesigner, I have to say the trend goes towards white or light-gray pages with fine lines and large areas. Such a style makes a design look very classy.
5. The implementation of that page is... - sorry, but is that really done by a professional content team? If you've got CSS that applies to multiple elements, you add a class to the element and put the CSS into the common stylesheet. I hope the only reason they didn't do it is that implementing changes in the MediaWiki page is difficult because of the persistent caching of the stylesheets.
6. I like the idea of the twitter gadget, but we should swap the poll and the AotW.
7. I don't like that "Browse Lyrics" box. It's just the alphabet (with a wrapped zee oh em djee) and a switching title. Not worth being the top box if it's even worth being a box.
8. Sorry to say, but I noticed something: it's intresting how Wikia back then literally raped all the wiki navigations when they switched from Monaco to Oasis, limiting the nav-links to 4 times 7 no-submenu-items. All those beautifully arranged, complex navigations were forced into 28 items, with the argument "people don't like long navigations". Now they praise their new extended navigation with submenues... Um, yeah +1 for the new menu, though. Gives us a lot more possibilities!

All in all, if we decide to do a redesign of our mainpage, I'd like to submit my own design suggestion beforehand. - Chris 00:19, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback! :) I'll respond by number:

1. Yeah, I definitely think we should keep our implementation translatable. The demo they put up doesn't use it, but I doubt anyone knows about our system except us. Whatever changes we do or don't end up making, I think it make sense to continue doing w/our translation system.
2. I nuked FMoTW at some point since I didn't think anyone would mind & I was sick of ppl giving me garbage about seeing JoJo every day ;)
3. The current one is definitely purty & the new one seems mainly based off of the old. It would be nice to do some refreshing though. :)
4. Clean is good. :) I do like separating sections w/borders though so that they don't bleed together. Maybe the drop-shadows are too much though. You guys are prob. better at that stuff than me so I don't have many more opinions to give on this point ;)
5. We can make the implementation good and right, so there's nothing to worry about there :) My guess is that you're probably right and he just inlined a bunch of stuff since he'd likely have to change it after our feedback & it's faster to just preview ONE page rather than having to change a MediaWiki:*.css page and wait for the caching to refresh.
6. Agreed on both points ^_^ twitter gadget works & poll looks good narrower while AotW looks good wider.
7. Glad you like the new nav :D

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sean Colombo (talk • contribs), 23:13, December 26, 2011 (UTC).

Okay, how about making my own proposal within the next days? - Chris 20:17, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

If you're up for it, that would be fantastic! :)

-Sean Colombo 20:24, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Looks like you got busy (life happens! ^_^). I think they're gonna put up their version from the mockups and then we can dive in and start fixing it (the translation infrastructure, design fixes, everything we mentioned above & whatever else we think works :D ). BOHICA! ;)

-Sean Colombo 01:00, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Following vs. Watchlist Edit

Hello everybody,

Newcomer question of the day: How come that on my user page I see a link to this apparently useless page and not to this very useful page? Is this on purpose?

--Rinaku 20:04, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

A very good question. That's what I've been asking all the time, too. But you can customize the toolbar at the bottom of all pages and add your watchlist to it. Hope that helps, Chris 20:11, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. But as soon as I understood that Special:Watchlist existed, I could bookmark it. When I signed up 2 months ago, I thought that Following was LyricWiki's or Wikia's standard Watchlist, because I set the language of the interface to French, in which the 2 are translated by the same word Suivi. Only today, as I was starting to write my own watchlist on my user page, did I realize that the URL was not the same as on Wikipedia... --Rinaku 21:55, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

adding a band of the same name? Edit

so........ the band i wanna add some lyrics for are called The Kick ( these guys) but The Kick they have a page for is..... someone i don't know....

so............. how do we add a page for "MY" The Kick? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paradive (talk • contribs).

Looks like the The Kick that's here already is a band that's not on Discogs, but here they are on Musicbrainz.

For a band/artist with the same name as another band/artist, you can add an identifier in parentheses, usually the country of origin -- for example, The Kick (Sweden). Trainman 01:36, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

so where's the link to add a new band page? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paradive (talk • contribs).

Anytime you try to go to a nonexistent page, you'll be offered the chance to create that page -- so all you have to do is click on the red "The Click (Sweden)" link above. Trainman 03:39, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

done. everything looks alright (i think... here), but i think i may have misspelled/stylized "BritPop". does that look right?

and how do i add a pic? (nevermind. figured it out.) — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paradive (talk • contribs).

Looks good -- and, in fact, since I last looked, one of the other admins, Senvaikis, decided "your" The Kick should be the main one, so it's now at The Kick and the other one was moved to The Kick (US).

Britpop, with no capital P, is the spelling that's used here. There's also a relatively new template to list band members, genres, and record labels, ArtistInfo, which I added. Trainman 00:43, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Groovshark Edit

Grooveshark links (in Song, Album and Artist templates) would possibly be a good idea. They provide a free and legal way to listen to music and you don't even need to have an account.-Athaba 23:46, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea IMO. Should be added to our current templates, and Will definitely be implemented into my T-Line! - Chris 22:18, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Same thing with Soundcloud. Some artists are there present. At least in the Artist-Template would it be interesting to link to the appropriate Soundcloud-Page. -- Salandas 01:42, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

You may want to look at two already existing templates:

• {{ListenMusic}}, linking to artist, album or song on listen.music.itop.net
• {{HelloDj}}, linking to artist, album or song on hello.dj

See also artist, album and song pages as the samples of these templates using.

hth, --Senvaikis ^(talk) 12:29, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint to both templates. Based on them I created a SoundCloud-Template (User:Salandas/Templates/Soundcloud, example at Celldweller:Louder_Than_Words). If there are no objections, I'm going to copy this into the Template-Namespace. Additionally I would like to add soundcloud as a parameter into the various footers: If the admins agree I will create you the source you would have to add to them.

Soundcloud offers the possibility to embed songs onto external pages. Has the audio-embed to be go-ear? Else I would try to implement a template to embed the song on the song-pages.

I'm no Grooveshark-User, so if you post URL examples to artists/albums/songs, I will create a template for it. (Chris, are there any requirements to fit the T-Line?) — Salandas (Talk) 22:11, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Ad legality: Grooveshark is not a good idea to link to: Because it does not have licenses to use the songs its legality is a big qustion mark (see [1]). Additionally several labels (Universal Music, Warner Music, etc...) are suing them because of this (in Germany Grooveshark is already blocked/disabled). We should better add competition which do have the license. — Salandas (Talk) 17:28, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Problem with (invalid) Facebook link Edit

I worked over the whole Stahlmann-Page and found the incorrect entry "Stahlmann" under "facebook" in the {{ArtistHeader}}-Template, which leads to the link [2] which is not correct. So I entered the Value "pages/Stahlmann/138756019513864" which leads to the correct link [3]. But untfortunatley the page is now in the category Invalid_Facebook_Link. What has to be done to get this fixed? --Salandas 23:15, January 4, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I didn't knew that the numerical id only works on pages, too. -- Salandas 21:51, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

A few questions/comments Edit

If you can respond to any/all of these questions/comments, that would be helpful.

1. Is it necessary to know ALL of the lyrics absolutely before a page can be upgraded to gold? For example, I was working on certifying this song, which I typed up myself from the lyrics on the album insert, but after listening to it I noticed that the singer repeats the first couple lines, but the second time the ending is different and he kind of trails off and I don't really know what he said. Can this not be gold until I know? Which will probably never happen? It's the only song that's keeping the album from gold.

2. I think it would be cool if there were simple forward and backward arrow keys on song pages that led to the next and previous songs on an album. If a song is on more than one album, there could be more than one set of arrow keys. I think this often when I am listening through an album while reading the lyrics, and have to go back to the album page before going to the next song. This would also would be cool for albums that have videos on most of their song pages. Then you can go on kind of a musical journey more easily by just clicking through the album in order.

3. Is there a set way to enter credits? I saw the credits template on that page but it doesn't seem to be standard...

4. Is there any page where we can request feedback for the work that we are doing? When I do things on the pages I edit, I feel kind of isolated, and I wonder sometimes if I am making mistakes that I don't know about. Sometimes my work is corrected by someone, which is helpful, but it is usually a bot. Is the extent of feedback? If this is the place to request it, and you have time, the main area I have worked on is Danielson.

Thanks and good night. Andersol 09:45, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I cannot answer to all questions, but the last ones I can say at least a bit:

ad 2. Don't know really, but I think, this might be correct somehow: At the moment it would be nearly impossible to implement such a function. Primarily, no song has any information what it's position on a disc it has, additionally most remix-pages link to the original songs lyrics. Ok, this could be easily added to {{Song}}. But I don't think that there is a efficient way to find the song of the same album which has in its header the same number in-/decreased by 1...

ad 3. An official guideline seems to be only this section: Help:Contents/Editing/Formatting/Songs#Credits. On this Discussion page is also a section where a template has been requested. Because I had the same problem as you I created {{CreditBox}}, but it is no official thing. If you surf around a bit, you will find many types of credits. At the moment only the content is relevant, maybe this will change someday in the future. ;-)

ad 4.: I don't know if there is a place for these requests. But I looked into the page a bit and noticed:

• For the Additional Infos about the artist I suggest looking into {{ArtistInfo}} (you will find an example at Stahlmann)
• Looking at Danielson:Danielson_Alive_(EP)_(2008), "(EP)" is not a part of the title and should only be noted as "type=EP" in the {{Album}}/{{Song}}-Template. (see also LW:PN#Album_Pages)
• Since you are interested in Gold-Rankings you should try to get rid of the "Other Songs"-Section. (see Help:Page_ranking/Artists#Other)

— Salandas (Talk) 00:05, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Album ranking star on artist pageEdit

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but wouldn't it be nice to have the album ranking star be displayed on the artist page as well? Maybe above the cover or next to the album title.
This way one could see at once which album pages need work without having to click through all of them? Darknite47 15:55, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Agree that it would be useful, but (unless we implement the transclusion of albums on artist pages) it would need to be synchronised manually (just like the tracklist)... — 6×9 (Talk) 20:42, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

iTunes links for people who don't use iTunes Edit

I was wondering if there's any way for people who don't use iTunes to get the full iTunes links for songs. I've got a couple albums to near-Gold status but I can't or don't know how to do the iTunes field. SHeavy:Synchronized (2002) needs iTunes links for every song but once that's done the album will be Silver, and Dog Fashion Disco:Adultery (2006) needs iTunes for Dog Fashion Disco:The Sacrifice Of Mrs. Rose Covington and Dog Fashion Disco:The Hitchhiker to be Gold. Jeff (talk|stalk) 00:11, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

The easiest way is a tool Apple provides to generate these links: iTunes Link Maker. You simply enter the Artist or album, etc. and the tool lists all possible targets (artists/albums/songs) presenting you the iTunes Link for each of them. You only have to copy them. — Salandas (Talk) 00:26, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

unknown artist in the way Edit

i'm looking to add a page for a band called Index (this guy: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Index ) but this already exists (http://lyrics.wikia.com/Index) with a whole 1 song posted.

so, uh, now what?

Do you think the song might be from this band, or is that one from a different band? If it is the same band then you are already where you want, you just have to fill in the other information you like? I've seen a song called "Black Razor" in one of the albums on discogs, so it might be that one, just wrongly titled? Rhonda D'Vine 10:10, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

nope. i'm 98% sure it's from another guy. according to discogs, there are 10 different Index'. so a conflict is rather expected i guess.

A search for the lyrics suggests that the song is by Infant Trauma – an artist that doesn't appear to exist outside of lyric pages… Anyway, it's out of the way now :-)

@Paradive: please sign your posts by adding ~~~~. Thanks! — 6×9 (Talk) 15:30, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

THANKEE!

~~~~ paradive (that all you mean?)

all done. my other question is how do i change the myspace link?

Two questionsEdit

First. What's the proper way to handle an album that had slightly different track listings based on region? Monster Magnet's God Says No album had different listings for the US, UK, and Japan, and I'm trying to get that album up to Gold.

Second. What do you do if you've got a song that for whatever reason isn't on any of the sites? Just mark everything as "not applicable"? I got hold of the Japan-only bonus track for God Says No and added the lyrics, but absolutely none of the external sites like Amazon have it. Jeff (talk|stalk) 02:20, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

1) Use the {{OL}} template like you did. I corrected the pipe position though (the API only recognizes lines starting with "#" as a track, therefore it's important that the pipe is behind the previous line, not in front of the current line).

2) You just mark them "not applicable", if that's what they are, yes. - Chris 19:51, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yt objectEdit

Hello,

Apparently it is impossible to put an <object> element on a page: it just appears as plain text. Anyone knows if there is a reason for that?

I think it would be interesting to be able to use this element, for video embedding. Currently there is the YouTube extension which enables <youtube></youtube> and {{#youtube:}} (and their equivalents for a few other sites), which in turn translate to <object>.

They work but as far as I understand you can't improve on them. For example, I would like to embed Dailymotion videos, or to add a t= (start time) parameter to a YouTube video. Do you know how we could do something like this?

--Rinaku 18:07, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Rinaku, yes all HTML tags are treated as plain text except for a few. Those object-tags are produced when the display code is generated, they are translated internally. You'd have to write an extension to add Dailymotion. Most HTML is turned off because enabling it would allow malitious code to be parsed. - Chris 19:24, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Alright. I've found the code of the extension and I think it would be easy enough to add a website. Do you by chance know what I should do to submit a change to Wikia? And if I could try it on Wikia? (I would be happy not to start by setting up a MediaWiki at home...) --Rinaku

Found answers. I will work on the extension when I have time and try to get the changes integrated into Wikia with the help of User:Sean_Colombo. --Rinaku 21:39, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, but please make sure you don't jeopardize the extension-, site- and database safety. The code behind object tags can be mighty applications that are able to easily exploit security holes. - Chris 21:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

The idea is to copy the YouTube part of the extension and to modify it toward this. And maybe to improve the YouTube part too. If you see something dangerous I could trigger while only embedding objects from these trusted sites, please tell. Eventually, you will be able to see the code here. --Rinaku 21:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hope you've noticed already a broken look (and functionality) of embedded youtube player in audio-only mode. Isn't that a result of some changes in yt extension? --Senvaikis ^(talk) 20:46, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't do anything yet. The extension didn't change recently, nor did the template, so I guess this change comes from YouTube. --Rinaku 14:56, May 12, 2012 (UTC)

No, I didn't notice any changes on Yt side - my local test page, used for audio-mode implementation, still works fine, showing the same (bottom) part of yt object, with all player controls visible. So, I'm pretty sure: the reason - some changes in css. Hope Chris may know that better... --Senvaikis ^(talk) 13:28, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Since a few weeks or months, the YT player changed its design. It hides the controls for small player sizes to enlarge the movie.

Test it: set the height back to the usual height of 209 (with Firebug) and click on the play button in the middle. The player recalculates the display mode on playback event, thus it notices that the player object is big enough to display a fixed controlbar again. Ergo the controls stay visible, during playback, even if you reduce the size back to 25. On the other way round, if you click onto the player (but not on the title as that'll open the YouTube page, click somewhere behind) and then use the spacebar to start the video, you'll see that the recalculation found the viewport to be too small for fixed controls, which is why it hides them after 2 seconds.

The "audio-only mode" is in fact a layout bug-using: the controls are at the bottom, therefore the code for them is internally the bottom-most within the player object. Like in HTML, the element defined later covers the elements before. Because of that, if the video (fixed to top border) and controlbar (fixed to bottom border) are pushed one upon the other, the controls stayed visible, hiding the video. Et voila, audio-only "mode".

The new algorithm makes the toolbar switch to hover-mode though. As a video-player isn't designed to be that small (nobody watches videos at 25 pixels), it looks buggy, but actually it's just the usual view: title-bar above movie with play button, and hidden controls until you start the video.

You didn't notice that "feature" because on YouTube your player is usually large enough. That is: either wait until they pin the controls again, or disable audio mode. I have no idea why this test page of yours still works though... Can I see it? - Chris 21:40, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Chris, you are right, speaking about current yt player (version #3), and all the tests described above (with the same results) I've made before writing my last msg :).

But then I checked my old local testpage:

<html>
 <body>
   <object 
    type="application/x-shockwave-flash" 
    data="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8" 
    width="300" height="25" id="YT_g0SicAEukI8">
    <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8"/>
    <param name="wmode" value="transparent"/>
    <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/>
   </object>
 </body>
</html>

As you can see, it contains a slightly different yt object, returned by #yt extension. And if you try it, - it'll still work in an 'old-style'... But if Rinaku is right and #yt code's still the same, then it should contain the same yt object innerHTML (see the code). But it doesn't, so - some changes on our side should be done anyway, imo. --Senvaikis ^(talk) 07:50, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

The code produced by the YT extension is:

<object width="252" height="25" id="YT_g0SicAEukI8" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"><param value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8" name="movie"><param value="transparent" name="wmode"><param value="always" name="allowScriptAccess"></object>

With linebreaks and some sorting you get this:

  <object 
    type="application/x-shockwave-flash" 
    data="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8" 
    width="300" height="25" id="YT_g0SicAEukI8">
    <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8"/>
    <param name="wmode" value="transparent"/>
    <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/>
  </object>

<object
    type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
    data="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8"
    width="252" height="25" id="YT_g0SicAEukI8">
    <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8">
    <param name="wmode" value="transparent">
    <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always">
  </object>

As you can see, it's not different. Actually, if I copy the current (unsorten) code onto an empty HTML page like you did with your test app, it also works. But I can't image how our page configuration might influence the YouTube-Player? Any idea? - Chris 20:32, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, you can take the full source code of this page, save it to a HTML file, open it in your browser, and the YT box shows just the control bar like it's supposed to. I'm stumped. — 6×9 (Talk) 21:18, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Don't you think, that extension, producing yt player for our pages, isn't one, which code we are looking at - just can't find any other explanation. No, that's impossible.

Then remains CSS (some player props may be affected through it). That's not truth also. --Senvaikis ^(talk) 21:37, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Made an experiment, placing the same yt test-object on hosted web-site. Result: the same yt object behaves differently when used on a local page and viewed from web page, without using any additional CSS.

Seems yt/a should be anounced deprecated (and replaced by just yt)...--Senvaikis ^(talk) 05:39, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Rather than marking it deprecated, why not add "?version=2" after the video id? Works at least on my local xampp installation. Funnily enough, "?version=3" breaks it for the local file as well… So it seems YT decides on which API version it chooses based on the client. — 6×9 (Talk) 06:33, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Seems it's the referer (or lack thereof). (Shortened) GET request from localhost:

GET /v/g0SicAEukI8&enablejsapi=1&playerapiid=g0SicAEukI8 HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*
Referer: http://localhost/index.html
User-Agent: wouldn't you like to know
Host: www.youtube.com
...

Response is shockwave/flash from www.youtube.com.

When opening as file protocol the request is identical, except that the referer is missing. Response is a 303 and redirection to youtube.googleapis.com. So I'd guess YT interprets missing referer as sign of a broken client and switches to older, possibly more compatible version. — 6×9 (Talk) 07:19, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

If #yt code may be changed, - why then change can't be done to a new-type embeding code? Just look here :) --Senvaikis ^(talk) 11:36, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Damn, - on my laptop iframe looks the same as the object (contarry to my work-desktop, where iframe's controls were visible from the start, without auto=hiding = exactly as in an "old-style" player). Don't understand nothing...--Senvaikis ^(talk) 15:05, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

i'm trying to get "and appears on the album..." on songs i've added, but can't. i've added "|album = " to the footer but no go.

what else is there?

AMG Pop ID -> Rovi Music ID Edit

Hi all.

Hope most of you have noticed already a new look of AMG. Changes seem to be only visual... but only at the first glance. The most important change (in terms of our footer templates) is implementation of Rovi Music ID.

Yes, LW amg-links still point to the correct amg performers & releases; yes, you still may find their AMG Pop ID (used as amgID in our templates), though now they aren't "on the very surface", as it used to be earlier.

But that can't be said about songs: now you'll not find (easy, I mean) any song AMG Pop ID; moreover - all existing songs amg-links now are dead.

So the question is quite rhetorical imo, but anyway it should be put: what do you think about moving from AMG Pop ID to Rovi Music ID?

--Senvaikis ^(talk) 07:47, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Here's my voting: I'm for moving :)

I voted by updating {{allmusic}} to allow the new format :-) I've added prefixes mn for artist, mw for album and mt for song. There might be more, so keep an eye out. Now let's sit back and watch Old-style Allmusic Link grow… — 6×9 (Talk) 18:56, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

UPDATE: Seems like allmusic have fixed things; old-style song links work now. — 6×9 (Talk) 13:38, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Done . --Senvaikis ^(talk) 17:07, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Great! Now we only have to wait for the job queue to catch up. - Chris 23:04, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

To catch up what? :) --Senvaikis ^(talk) 10:03, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

French spaces? Edit

Hi, I noticed minor changes in LW lately, most of them are fine, but there is a bug (hopefully not a feature ;-) that seems new to me:

Spaces before question marks (and probably other two-piece punctuation symbols) seem to be transformed into their HTML entity (&#160;) which do appear as code within the <lyrics> tags. I believe this is due to French typesetting where you add a space before exclamation and question marks and such, and want to avoid page breaks just before these symbols.

Is there a possibility to either allow HTML entities within <lyrics> or to not have no-break spaces automagically inserted into the wiki code? – Tauriel (talk) 10:44, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think I know what you mean, but I'm not positive. Can you link me to a page where this happens?

Thanks,

-Sean Colombo (talk) 19:21, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Select any random song page, insert a space followed by ? or ! anywhere in the lyric box, hit preview mode and watch the regular #32 being magically turned into a HTML-encoded #160. — 6×9 (Talk) 20:48, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, 6x9, or try, e.g., Christophe Maé:On S'attache, (second) last verse. (As said, it's mostly a problem of French language songs.) – Tauriel (talk) 21:34, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Our devboxes have a bug. Should be fixed tomorrow & I'll try to give it a peek when I'm in the office. -Sean Colombo (talk) 02:27, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. We're on a MediaWiki 1.19 bug-fix week so I fixed it. It's working on devboxes: http://lyrics.sean.wikia-dev.com/wiki/Christophe_Ma%C3%A9:On_S%27attache here is the changeset: http://trac.wikia-code.com/changeset/57774 it'll go out with the weekly-release a week from Wednesday (so August 15th).

-Sean Colombo (talk) 19:03, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

LyricWiki goes YouTube! Edit

Hi, today I've been issuing another LyricWiki tutorial at the LyricWiki channel on YouTube. I'm sorry for the stupid mistakes I made (like 'sign' for 'character' ), but hey – working and talking a foreign language at the same time is not that easy. Next tutorials will be on "how to move and redirect pages", then "how to add metadata" and later on page ranking. It'll take a little while because I have to reconfigure half the PC for recording (installing English Firefox, disable/hide add-ons, hide bookmarks, set Wikia interface and editor to English, translate the customized parts of them, and so on). But it'll be done some day. If you want to comment on the videos, you can tell me here or below the video. - Chris 23:59, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Searching lyrics Edit

Hi I am hoping someone will be able to help me find the title and artist of a children's song from about the 1950's or 1960's or there about.

Lyrics in the song go:

It's too wonderful,
It's too marvelous
And it's believed to be absolutley true in fairyland
And if a wizard had to wave his wand then you would understand
Why every little boy and girl in the world believe in fairytales

Thanks, DiSa — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 41.113.125.216 (talk • contribs), 07:28, 23 August, 2012 (UTC)‎.

Going fulltime on game stuff Edit

Just to make it more widely visible than my own talk page... I wanted to mention that after Wednesday, I'll be going fulltime working on my startup: BlueLine Game Studios. I've handed things off fairly well (and will continue to do so over the next couple of days). Wikia's mobile team will be taking care of the LyricWiki Android & iOS apps. Gracenote Reporting was already done by someone else last quarter, so that appears to be working smoothly. I've documented everything else I could think of.

If there is anything broken, the best place to go is Special:Contact - they will answer within 24 hours.

It's been a fun ride, but I'll be working almost not-at-all on LyricWiki & Wikia code since I'll be pouring myself into making games (I'm sure I'll still edit LW occasionally though). Feel free to follow along on my @seancolombo or @BlueLineGames twitter accounts.

I love you guys <3 -Sean Colombo (talk) 21:58, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Whoa, this is really sad. You're leaving LyricWiki to be "occasionally back". You know, I know only little about your plans, but I know enough about life to see that this is a promise to make us not lose our heads, but actually you have no idea how frequently occasionally is, right?

Well, I hope you'll be successful with your new start-up — one day, you might have a paper on your desk, some guy from Germany applying for a job at BlueLine Game Studios, a guy with plenty of ideas for new games...

Good luck, and goodbye, ol' friend! You will be missed - Chris 01:05, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Good luck! (Typed "lick" on my first attempt there, which, now that I think about it, actually might be a good wish for you, too.) Trainman (talk) 20:48, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, Sean, - You just can't leave us without writing one more bot - for orphaned users & admins patronage! :)

As always in such cases - sad to see off, and glad for your successes. Try to visit your poor orphans as often as you can. Good luck! --Senvaikis ^(talk) 12:40, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

It's the end of an era. Best of luck with your new venture! — 6×9 (Talk) 18:25, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

New Forums now available in Labs Edit

New Forums now available in Labs. Any admin feel like enabling it? Could replace this page. ConsumeTheSky (talk) 19:27, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

General layout Edit

This site's layout is pretty nice and is fairly easy to navigate. However, the main page in particular is an assault on the eyes. It doesn't follow any of the styles seen throughout the site, such as in templates, etc. The text shadowing is way too heavy against that grey background (that deep of a shade of grey adds a somewhat morbid feeling, by the way). The color contrasts make it appear very outdated.

The "Browse Lyrics By" section is almost laughably impractical, it definitely should not be the first section listed. I think it's fair to assume the average visitor will be here to look up lyrics to a specific song or lyrics by a specific artist, not here to browse the hundreds of thousands of songs (which happen to be in hundreds of languages) alphabetically. The "User Blogs" section is very outdated. If not removed altogether, it should be part of the secondary column on the right. Why put the "Song of the Day" and "Album of the Week" sections in this column? These are updated constantly and are quite interesting. Why not put these in the more noticeable left column?

I don't fully understand how this design came to be, was it one person, was it multiple people, was it community consensus? That's neither here nor there, though. The main page just needs a nice redo. Fingernails (talk) 02:27, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. The Twitter widget is not wide enough and doesn't look custom to the wiki at all (probably because it isn't). A simple text feed instead would be much nicer.

Harmonic Analysis via hooktheory.com Edit

What do you think about including harmonic analysis of songs to this Wiki? There is a website called hooktheory.com, which has a nice Wiki Database for harmonic analysis. We could include links to the harmonic analysis in the same manner we link to iTunes etc. now. The website also allows to embed the analysis, so we could also use that as a standard. Nixoninajar (talk) 14:40, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure we'd want to embed their analyses here; it seems like something that would be of very limited interest to the people who visit this site (I have a feeling almost everyone is primarily looking for the lyrics, and couldn't care less about the harmonic analysis -- myself, even though I'm a big music lover, I know next to nothing about music theory).

It would probably be more appropriate to add the option of a link within the SongFooter template, similar to the fashion in which a link to ProgArchives.com is an optional feature. However, I'm not really the one to do that, since I only know slightly more about wiki template programming than I do about music theory -- we'll see if one of the other admins sees this and is interested. Trainman (talk) 07:37, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree with You that linking is probably a better option than embedding.

For those who are sceptic about the interest in this: I can only assure You that anyone who plays an instrument and really likes a song is at some point curious how it would sound on his/her instrument, and a harmonic analysis helps to try it out. And since nobody will be disturbed by linking to them, it can only increase the quality of LyricWiki. Nixoninajar (talk) 14:40, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

notifications Edit

how do i stop getting notifications about changes to a page?

and it claims it's a favorite, but all i did was submit it. furthermore, it never really changes. it just keeps sending me an email cuz someone added an itunes and musicbrainz link. a year ago. =/

Paradive (talk) 05:29, December 31, 2012 (UTC)paradive

You may have accidentally clicked on the "Follow" link on that page while you were editing it -- go back to that page and see if "Following" appears at the lower left of your browser window. If so, click on the word "Following"; it'll change back to "Follow" to show that you've unfollowed it.

Which page is it? I can look at the history and try to figure out why you were getting notifications even though it looked like nothing had changed. Trainman (talk) 07:20, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you have an option enabled that also adds all your edited pages to your watchlist. You can change this and the notification email settings in your preferences. You can use the link to immediately go there. Alternatively the preferences link is in the dropdown in the top right corner if you hover your username (do not click on your username though). - Chris 05:21, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

i'm lost.

i'm not following it ( http://lyrics.wikia.com/Nitzer_Ebb:Never_Known ) and i wanna have it enabled to get emails of changes i've created.

but this one has never changed except for the links added over a year ago.

Paradive (talk) 07:38, January 1, 2013 (UTC)paradive

Sorry, but I don't understand. "i wanna have it enabled to get emails of changes" pretty much contradicts your first post "how do i stop getting notifications about changes to a page"?

Anyways, here's a step by step explaination of what works how. You will then hopefully be able to figure out the right settings on your own.

Following

At first, you need to understand that the e-mails are not directly triggered by any edits themselves. They are triggered by changes on pages you follow. You can see which pages you are following on Special:Following. You can follow or unfollow a page by clicking on the "Follow" or "Unfollow" link in the bottom bar when you are on the page.

Automated following

You can make some settings regarding whether you want to automatically follow page you've been working on. You can use the page Special:Preferences, tab "Email", to choose which pages you want to automatically follow:

• Pages you created (you will follow a page after you have created it)
• Pages you edited (you will follow a page after you have edited it)
• Pages you move (this option is maybe not visible for you yet)

Notificatoion emails

In a certain interval, the system will gather all your followed pages and send you a notification email about which pages have been changed after you last visited them. If you visit a page while being logged in, the system will not notify you about the changes. This also means you will be never notified about your own changes. It'll also probably continue to notify you until you visited the page.

Customizing the notification level

However, you can decide on which pages and what kind of edits the system should react to. You can also set these options in the preferences on the tab "Email" under "Email me when...":

• Check the first option if you want to be notified if a page you are following was changed by another user after you visited that page for the last time
• Check the second option if you also want to be notified if the other user marked that edit as "Small"
• Check the third option to be notified when your talk page changes. I am not sure you need to follow your page to make this option work.
• If you check fourth option, you'll not immediately notified about every single change, but the system makes you a weekly list of all unseen changes and emails this list to you.
• The fifth option does not have to do anything with watching or changing pages. It's the Wikia newsletter.

Alternative to emails

Alternatively to being notified via email, you can use Special:Watchlist to directly see which pages have been edited. If you enable "Use advanced recent changes" in the preferences on the tab "Under the hood", it's also make it possible to check the pages that have been edited multiple times since your last visit.

I hope this helps. Please read all of it carefully and do not just skip over it. - Chris 03:40, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

from <album> Edit

i'm trying to get "this song is by X from Y" on the lyric page, but it keeps saying Y doesn't exist and is red.

i've tried including and excluding the year from Y and it's definitely exists (ex. http://lyrics.wikia.com/The_World_Of_Skin:Please_Remember_Me ) so, what gives?

Paradive (talk) 00:48, February 25, 2013 (UTC) paradive

In that case, it's showing up as red because the album page doesn't exist -- there isn't yet a page for Ten Songs from Another World (1990), or any of the other albums that are listed on the The World of Skin artist page. Album pages don't get created automatically, they need to be created by hand separately. Trainman (talk) 16:52, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

yes, there is. go to The World of Skin page, #4 is Ten Songs From Another World (1990).

Paradive (talk) 05:19, February 28, 2013 (UTC) paradive

Yes -- as I said, the album is listed on the artist page, but there hasn't yet been a separate album page created for it. (You can tell because the link to the album is red on the artist page.)

The link at the top of the song page goes to the album page; if no album page has been created yet, the link will be red, which is what's happening in this case. Trainman (talk) 05:27, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

ugh.

so how does one go about making/defining a page for the album?

Paradive (talk) 23:44, March 1, 2013 (UTC) paradive

Same way you can create any page on the wiki: just click on the red link. It should automatically detect that you're trying to create an album page, and give you a template in the editing box. (Although first, what you might want to do is edit the artist page -- don't actually make an edit for now, just highlight the album track list and hit control-C. Then, when you create the album page, you can just do control-V and have the track list already done.) Trainman (talk) 00:39, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

now it's blue. did you do something?

my bad. still not working.

Paradive (talk) 20:26, March 4, 2013 (UTC) paradive

Try "For" instead of "for" - pagenames are case sensitive. — 6×9 (Talk) 07:10, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh...

thankee

Paradive (talk) 23:35, March 6, 2013 (UTC) paradive

Lyrics of one album ON ONE PAGE please! Edit

I make a particular use of lyrics since I do not have wireless at home. I have to copy them and save them on my laptop. Thus it is a great loss of time to have to copy one song after the other ; why can't we see all the lyrics of one album on one page by clicking on the album's name? It sure would represent a loss in ad revenue, but a community project like Wikipedia should not be driven by revenue. Even for the average listener who is browsing "live", it would be more comfortable to have all the lyrics on the same page or at least click on an arrow to the next song. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.253.23.250 (talk).

Unfortunately, pages containing all the lyrics for an album would create a lot of duplication of songs that appear on more than one album, and thus, the potential for lyrics being corrected in one place but not in others (we don't have an automated way to duplicate lyrics). There also might be issues with Gracenote licensing, which happens on a song-by-song basis. Probably most importantly, though, I think most people who visit this site looking for lyrics are only looking for the lyrics to one song at a time, so it's more simple for them to have individual pages for each song.

That said, if you have ideas for how to handle the "click an arrow to the next song" method, such as a graphic mockup for how it would be presented on the song page, I'm sure we'd be interested in seeing them.

I also want to note that Wikia is not the same thing as Wikipedia (both entities will definitely tell you that!), and that the LyricWiki administrators don't do things for ad revenue-related reasons (we don't get any money for this) -- and most of the decisions on how LyricWiki is set up, including having separate pages for each song, were made years before it was a part of Wikia. Perhaps more than any other wiki being hosted by Wikia, though, LyricWiki can point to its ad revenue being necessary for the site to continue -- the ad revenue helps to pay for the Gracenote licensing, which keeps LyricWiki viable (that is, it keeps LyricWiki from being sued into oblivion for copyright infringement). Trainman (talk) 00:56, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

If you are willing to explain exactly what you are trying to do, there certainly is a way to do it. But expecting the universe of lw to change to fit your rather vague description is a bit unrealistic. ;)

Almost all of our users want the lyrics in the lyric box of their songs (in itunes or other media players). I have done what you want on rare occasions because an album was ripped from vinyl as one file per side, and I was too lazy to use a digital recorder to split the tracks.

I'd say step one would be to use your browser more efficiently, or use a browser than can be scripted.

A very similar question came up on this very portal around 4-5 years ago, some users even created a navigation template to move from song to song until they realized what sort of a quagmire they are getting themselves into, it was similar to wikipedia's album nav template. Maybe our template wizard knows what came of it ;) --ES (Talk) 11:18, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for both your answers. What I had in mind did not involve suppressing the song-by-song pages, only having the option of seeing all the lyrics of the album by clicking somewhere on the album page. Which would also solve the ad revenue issue, since only a small amount of users would choose the option. However, I have no answer to the duplication and the licensing issues, which I had not envisaged in the first place. I am actually very bad at informatics, so I have no suggestion regarding the "click to the next song" method. Hope someone else has :) (Someone else had indeed made the same proposal.) Sorry for the inappropriate confusion with Wikipedia. Since I am so bad at informatics, I would appreciate it if EchoSierra could tell me a bit more about "using the browser more efficiently" and "using a browser that can be scripted". Anyway, I will try to investigate in that way. Thank you again, 80.14.89.196 10:24, March 5, 2013 (UTC)Gabriel

Just an information on the "next song" idea: Transclusion is able to implement such a feature, see Transclusion:Track 02 for example. It would also possible to setup aggregated lyric pages, but I think we may not provide something like this until there is a way to charge the fees for every song on the aggregated page, i. e. multiple "page view counter" triggers for one page. I'm not sure how the current system works, we'd have to inform about that first. - Chris 23:28, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Program for posting Edit

Hello, this is my small program for lyricWiki's posting Please, test it and post your review https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4105010/LyrWiki.exe

Vocaloid and UTAU and such Edit

User:EchoSierra brought to my attention here that things could get confusing quickly with Vocaloid and UTAU artist pages around. (Vocaloid and UTAU are voice synthesizers. Vocaloid is commercial, UTAU is free software so there are literally infinite amount of voices/singers/voicebanks/whatever out there. No one knows exactly how many, but over 300 for sure...)Currently they're listed by "singer" in my category for them here. But apparently things can get weird, so maybe it would be better to list them as [[(Insert Producer Here):Song (feat. (Insert Vocaloid(s) Here)]]? Using 初音ミク (Miku Hatsune):Nyanyanyanyanyanyanya! as an example, maybe something like [[daniwell-P:Nyanyanyanyanyanyanya! (feat. 初音ミク)]] or something? And maybe the producer page can be sorted or something, I dunno. Definitely the producers have webpages and Twitter, that's solved. But then, most YouTube videos are reprints...

And because you can make any Vocaloid or UTAU cover any song, obviously Template:Covered and artist pages would get messy quickly. (Especially with UTAU... Imagine a song page with a covers list spanning the entire page...) And then, there are duets, and pairings and such someone put in a song, etc. So, what should be done? --ʃ^u126_☎ 02:58, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Anyone? ^^;; --ʃ^u126_☎

I guess most of us are out of our depth here -- I know I am :-) But I agree that having the producer (who does the actual work) as artist makes a lot more sense. Note that adding "(feat. XXX)" to the pagename is not permitted by LW:PN, but you can use the "fa=" parameter in {{Song}}, or we could create a {{VoiceSynth}} template which could take care of the categorising.

You could check which members of LW:Japan are still (somewhat) active and point them here, but I can't promise any of them are still around :-/ — 6×9 (Talk) 06:56, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I left messages on the ones who have activity from at least February 2013. Waiting for a reply --[u126║^☎_✍] 02:38, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Here's some example files sitting on my computer: "【初音ミク】celluloid.mp3" by "baker feat. Hatsune Miku"; "【アコギ】ニコニコメドレ２.mp3" (アコギ, Akogi, Acoustic Guitar) by "Heppoko Rokugen Tsukai". For trio there's "【初音ミク、鏡音リン、鏡音レン】静かな湖畔 LIVE in 沖縄" (Shizuka na Kohan) without attributed artists (I should update these files). And then you have "Love is War - Miku,Kaito,Len,Rin,Gumi,Mikuo,Gakupo,Luka" for octets. I'd class the Vocaloids as more of an "instrument", much like "akogi" because I think that attributing Vocaloids as artist (prefix) is like attributing Pianos, Drums and Guitars as artists. Therefore, I also agree that producer should be used as artist. ..... As for covers list, how about "This song has been covered by Vocaloid/UTAU. For full list, see [[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/List_of_covers_using_Vocaloid_or_UTAU]]" on the covered song page? —BryghtShadow 03:48, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea :) But or producers with more than one name, like cosMo/BouSou-P and mothy/Akuno-P it should probably go under the name 初音ミク Wiki goes under? But then what should it be if it's different people tuning and writing the lyrics? Should it be [[{{LYRICIST}}:{{SONGTITLE}}]] or [[{{LYRICIST's TUNER}}:{{SONGTITLE}}]] And then for people that cover it with different lyrics?

I made a quick mockup of what I imagine here: User:Umbreon126/sandbox-vocaloidutau

Why does this have to be so complicated! --[u126║^☎_✍] 22:21, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Going with names that hmiku uses is probably a good idea. For tuner vs lyricist, I can't decide, but I'm leaning more towards tuner (composer or arranger?) for the original Vocaloid or UTAU song. As an example, the album Re:package by livetune. Looking at the song over16bit!, lyrics by "かじゅきP"(kajukiP) and "yae". but on the livetune blog entry, it's listed as "03.over16bit! (kajyuki)" (kajukiP was a member of livetune). So, we'd either use [[Livetune:Over16bit!]] or [[かじゅきP (kajukiP):Over16bit!]] I suppose? Another example is Stella > Rin（ぎん）, which has lyrics by 良聖 and compose+arrange by Rin（ぎん）. But then there's 鏡音レンの消失 > 妹P, which has lyrics by 妹P but compose+arrange by cosMo（暴走P） -- it's a parody of 初音ミクの消失 -DEAD END- by cosMo（暴走P）.

While we're at it, for disambig tag what do we use? There's Fate (a Danish heavy metal band) and Fate (a Vocaloid song creator/maker/作り手). Do we just go with "Fate (JP)" (and assume/hope that Voicaloid artist names don't clash with JP artist names)? —BryghtShadow 03:04, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

┌─────────────┘

Maybe [[Fate (Vocaloid)]] for the disambiguation? unless there's a country planning to rename itselfI'm thinking more of lyricist for page titles because songs typically don't have a huge amount of lyricists (and I can't imagine such an idea going well) (for example Mr. Music, with 7 tuners, 3 lyricists, and 2 songwriters), or maybe even both lyricist and tuners. Maybe something like [[Kajuki-P and yae:Over16bit!]] or [[Kajuki-P & yae:Over16bit!]] (& or and???)? And while on the topic of livetune, it seems hmiku doesn't have one page for livetune, so maybe there could be an artist page [[livetune]] that lists all the members? For parodies, maybe the person that revised everything and made the parody... --[u126║^☎_✍] 23:28, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

The issue here is that VY1 & VY2 are not artists, any more than EMS VCS 3 that Pink Floyd used was an artist. Please see Bplats, creators of VY1 & VY2 etc. In a similar vein, Mac OS has many built in voices for text to speech conversion (Victoria, Bruce, etc.), but neither Bruce or Victoria or MacOS are artists.

However, behind all pieces of software and hardware, a human sits (maybe a technician on behalf of a studio, or an individual we can call an artist) who controls the hardware and software, supplies the lyrics/text (existing or original work).

Again to draw another analogy, cartoon characters like Sonic The Hedgehog or Rocky & Bullwinkle or Snowy White (+ seven dwarfs) are not artists. Behind all of these ficticious characters sits one or more humans who bring the characters to life.

Seems like the best way to represent VY1 & VY2 is by albums, with the artist of each song being an entity that certainly is not VY1 VY2 or any future incarnations / combinations of hardware & software.

Additionally, neither VY1 nor VY2 has any external references of any sort declared, because none exists. --ES (talk) 02:58, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

"Seems like the best way to represent VY1 & VY2 is by albums, with the artist of each song being an entity that certainly is not VY1 VY2 or any future incarnations / combinations of hardware & software." If you mean that songs should be listed as [[{{artist(not VY1 or VY2)}}:SongTitle}}]], that's what we're talking about above, debating how it should be set out. I certainly agree that VY1 and VY2 are not exactly entirely artists, but when I first stumbled across this Wiki, I found the Hatsune Miku page, then 鏡音リン・レン (Rin & Len Kagamine) and assumed that was how it was set out, because it was there xP

Obviously now that is not correct, and it's a complex issue, and I think it would be nice to have some admin input of some sort on how it should all be solved.

Also, VY1 at Vocaloid Wiki and VY2 at Vocaloid Wiki. --[u126║^☎_✍] 22:24, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

There is a reason why we have ArtistFooeter external refrences: If we follow the mb link at Hatsune Miku, and inspect the albums attributed, it will become clear that Hastsune is not an artist, rather a featured piece of equipment by artists as listed at 初音ミク@mb. At Hatsune Miku we learn it's a piece of software, and that 1000s of songs have been written for it (by artists, I imagine). Also see Miku Hatsune@discogs

I'd be the first to admit we have bad examples all over the site, Sonic The Hedgehog artist page is another one I mentioned earlier, songs with misattribution of artist to Musicals/TV shows/Movies/Disney/Cartoon charcters are other examples. If you read the VY1 & VY2 wikis you refrenced, maybe the fog of marketing complexity will disappear ;) --ES (talk) 23:51, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I understand that they're not artists, if that's what you mean. (I just made the pages in the past because of the existing pages, and the assumption of "OK, this is how it goes I guess".) I love MusicBrainz's tag "bogus artist" --[u126║^☎_✍] 01:48, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Two different artists with same name Edit

Hey! I would like to make a page for the Japanese band Raphael. Unfortunatly there already exists a Spanish artist with the same name ( Raphael ). So, how should this be solved? I know that last.fm solves it by letting both artist share the page. Is that how it is solved here as well? It might get kind of confusing though.. --XeonpZycho (talk) 10:08, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

See LW:PN. See also relevant discussion: User talk:6 times 9#Foggy Skies at Amazon. Hope that helps. —BryghtShadow 03:27, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Great! I thought I looked everywhere before posting, but it seems I missed that one! Thanks! I already got help by EchoSierra who set up the new artist page, so I'm rockin' it now!--XeonpZycho (talk) 07:34, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Tags for songs! Edit

Let's add tags for song based on, for example, meaning, theme of lyrics (I guess, it will be main way of using, but there is also could be more reasons.) For instrumentals — some kind of description, mood … whatever. Probably, it's like it was done on LastFm. Please note, that it's not only methodical, it's technical question firstly. Трамвай Ядерный (talk) 09:16, June 2, 2013 (UTC)